D&D General D&D Evolutions You Like and Dislike [+]

[Gimby]

So the option is to just waste someone else's turn and work against their choice of character class, or capitulate. And flavor does matter. The leader is ordering you around, even if you rebel against it.

It's far better to just not make a class that bosses other PCs around and let that sort of thing be a table choice.

But it is a table choice - there's a certain social pressure sure, but there's a social pressure to do a lot of things in the game (not splitting parties being an obvious one). I'm interested though - you mentioned that there were cases where a leader could force you to do things. Do you have any examples of that which aren't magic? I'm honestly interested as I don't think I've ever seen a Martial power source leader power that did that.

 

[Maxperson]

you can literally just reflavour that. it is not that hard.

Why should I have to do the work to re-write the flavor text for a ton of abilities for multiple classes? How about just not put in classes that boss other PCs around in the first place and let that sort of thing be a table choice?

 

[Remathilis]

"Oh no, the warlord is giving me the opportunity to be a more effective character by using an ability that requires a willing target! Whatever shall I do?"

Paladin: Your forces are beaten, Eye of Gruumsh. Surrender and I will spare you miserable life.
Eye of Gruumsh: I surrender. ::Falls to his knees in front of paladins::
Warlord: He's too dangerous to leave alive. I use my commander's strike to make the paladin strike the Orc.
Paladin: Sonofabisket! WHY? He surrendered! ::rolls: Does as 17 hit?

 

[Gimby]

reminds me of some of those DnD horror stories about how 'the atheist party member refused to be healed by my cleric'

A bit like that, sure I think that what makes them "horror stories" though are certain assumptions about the point of the game being a certain type of challenge based play - remove those assumptions and it's potentially a source of interesting interpersonal conflict that can fuel entertaining characterisation and chewy dilemmas for a table (Do I save the life of the unconscious atheist against their express wishes? How will this affect our relationship in the future?)

 

[Maxperson]

Paladin: Your forces are beaten, Eye of Gruumsh. Surrender and I will spare you miserable life.
Eye of Gruumsh: I surrender. ::Falls to his knees in front of paladins::
Warlord: He's too dangerous to leave alive. I use my commander's strike to make the paladin strike the Orc.
Paladin: Sonofabisket! WHY? He surrendered! ::rolls: Does as 17 hit?

Again, the option is to capitulate or invalidate the other player's choice of class and abilities.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Again, the option is to capitulate or invalidate the other player's choice of class and abilities.

should i of just chosen to play a wizard so i could use Command on them instead?

 

[Gimby]

Again, the option is to capitulate or invalidate the other player's choice of class and abilities.

I'm assuming you are banning Commander's Strike from Battlemaster then? It's even worse in that case as the Warlord didn't spend any resources

Or Bless, you are being forced to capitulate to making attacks or invalidating the other player's class and abilities?

Or it would seem, any other buff ability at all?

 

[DammitVictor]

Bard, Barbarian, and sorcerer were PHB1 for 3E and fan favorites. They were not niche. I get why they saved them for book 2 so it would actually sell but I didn’t appreciate it.

Bard wasn't a core class in 1e; Barbarian and Sorcerer weren't core in 1e or 2e, and the Sorcerer represented a mechanical niche in 3.X that didn't exist in 4e. They took a backseat to the Four in the Core, the Ranger and Paladin (core in both editions of AD&D and 3e) and the Warlock and Warlord.

Not as niche as the Monk or the Soulknife (RIP), but compared to everything but the last two...

I get it, and I'd have preferred the Bard over the Warlock too, but the PHB1 was 320 pages already and each class would be another 12-15 pages. It wasn't some nefarious scheme to force you to buy two books... or else there would have been a lot more old classes (which I would have preferred) to new classes in PHBs 2 and 3.

 

[DammitVictor]

you can literally just reflavour that. it is not that hard.

Speaking of evolutions in the game that we dislike...

 

[Maxperson]

I'm assuming you are banning Commander's Strike from Battlemaster then? It's even worse in that case as the Warlord didn't spend any resources

Or Bless, you are being forced to capitulate to making attacks or invalidating the other player's class and abilities?

Or it would seem, any other buff ability at all?

Commanders strike says that the target CAN make an attack as a reaction, it does not make the target do so in the wording. Further, one ability does not a leader make. It's just a guy saying, "Hit it Joe!"

As for bless, the wording isn't even that strong. Nothing in it directs the targets to do anything at all. There is no bossing other PCs around inherent to it at all.