Joseph Elric Smith
First Post
Sounds neat
ken
ken
D&D for Beginners (new product)
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
WizarDru
Adventurer
S'mon said:
I'm just curious, since I don't see 3E's artwork being nearly so dungeon-punk as others appear to: can you point out some particular illustrations that are archetypes for what you consider this art style to be? I'm assuming the illustration for the Sorceror is one, but what others? As I sit and think about it, I'm having a hard time envisioning illustrations that were radically different from older D&D editions.
Pictures like the paladin caught in the trap, the players plotting around a table, the fighters attacking the drow with the staff...these all seem like 'classic' D&D picutres, to me. Are we merely discussing the fashion designs of some characters, or a larger aesthetic?
Joseph Elric Smith
First Post
Well the picture of the sorcerer in that silly leather armour with all the buckles comes to mine. and he look and hair style of of some of the various pictures I've seen.WizarDru said:
ken
MerricB said:Absolutely! This is a game of fantasy, not boring mundanity! No playing of anything you can be in real life!
Cheers!
Better drop the Fighter and Rogue, too, then. So you wanna add the Druid and Bard, then?
But seriously folks!... The Ranger, Dwarf, and Elf should in no wise be dropped. I'm not even sure if the Bard or Barbarian should be. The CharGen stuff is short enough for one book, as it is. Spells, Feats, and Skills may have to be cut, but I think there's room for all the races and classes (especially if they're given pre-selected Feats and Skills. I guess it all depends upon whether the three books are 32 pages, or whatever,,,
It should be interesting to see what they do. We already know that the Combat chapter in the 3.5e PHB will be cut down.
Sixchan
First Post
WizarDru said:
PHB
Ray of frost guy, p243.
DMG
Spellcaster, p19.
The Arcane Archer. (not really, but I don't like the way the bottom of her ears are level with her eyes. She's deformed.)
The Blackguard.
Drowning Gothic Alhandra, p114
Dwarven Shotgun, p162
Apparaus of Kwalish, p207 (this is just un-D&D rather than Dungeon Punk)
Creating Magic Items, p244
That's just flicking thorugh, but I think I got most of them in the DMG
WanderingMonster
First Post
I just can't resist
Sixchan said:
PHB
Ray of frost guy, p243.
A mediorce picture to be sure.
DMG
Spellcaster, p19.
A spellcater from a non-European influenced culture?
The Arcane Archer. (not really, but I don't like the way the bottom of her ears are level with her eyes. She's deformed.)
I guess I just don't agree with this one.
The Blackguard.
Okay, well that's just silly-art. The new picture of the Blackguard for 3.5e rocks!
Drowning Gothic Alhandra, p114
Maybe your problem is short hair?I'm only being partly facetious.
Dwarven Shotgun, p162
That illustrates the topic of "building a different world". It's in context.
Apparaus of Kwalish, p207 (this is just un-D&D rather than Dungeon Punk)
Duuude! The Apparatus of Kwalish is classic D&D! It's been around since...forever!
Creating Magic Items, p244
I still think it's the short hair.
That's just flicking thorugh, but I think I got most of them in the DMG
William Ronald
Explorer
I think the new set for beginning players is a BRILLIANT idea.
I would maybe go up to level 5. (MerricB, I like your suggestions.)
The art sould be of a style to attract a broad audience. I never really cared for dungeon punk, but I like a variety of styles. (Different races and cultures could have armor that is functionally similar but looks very different.)
I think keeping this as an introductory product is a good idea as well. Also, maybe throw in a few advertising materials for the D&D game and put in a free download at the Wizards site.
I would maybe go up to level 5. (MerricB, I like your suggestions.)
The art sould be of a style to attract a broad audience. I never really cared for dungeon punk, but I like a variety of styles. (Different races and cultures could have armor that is functionally similar but looks very different.)
I think keeping this as an introductory product is a good idea as well. Also, maybe throw in a few advertising materials for the D&D game and put in a free download at the Wizards site.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
Kiddie appeal of art in PH, DMG and MM
Well, the 11-year olds I game with once in a while to teach them the game scream and shout and tear books from my hands when they get a glimpse of the art in the core rules. For example, the bugbear in MM caused quite a commotion, due to it being considered... well... übercool... or something like that. But also the more gothic images provoke a really intense reaction from the kids, along the lines of "that's so cool... gimme, gimme, gimme! I wanna look at it!".
So I think the art works. At least it works with the 11-year olds I have observed. So I think they're doing it right.
M.
Well, the 11-year olds I game with once in a while to teach them the game scream and shout and tear books from my hands when they get a glimpse of the art in the core rules. For example, the bugbear in MM caused quite a commotion, due to it being considered... well... übercool... or something like that. But also the more gothic images provoke a really intense reaction from the kids, along the lines of "that's so cool... gimme, gimme, gimme! I wanna look at it!".
So I think the art works. At least it works with the 11-year olds I have observed. So I think they're doing it right.
M.
Remathilis
Legend
I never got a chance to loolk at the first Adventure Game, but if I was a gambling man, I'd bet on these.
All 11 classes, 3.5 revised as necessary. Better compatability with the larger game, allows for the "archetypes" needed for newer players to latch onto. (Well, we may disagree on what a barbarian is, most middle-High School students will accept a raging wildman.) Obviously, they would be trimmed down from un-necessary rules, and probably stop advancement at 6th level. (Why 6th, first secondary attack for warriors, 3rd level magic for sorcerers)
All 7 races, but trimmed down as needed.
Skills: The "dungeon skills" plus some RP ones. Balance, Jump, Tumble, Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, Climb, Swim, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Hide, Move Silent, Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Movtive and Intimidate. (This pretty much removes crarft, knowledge, professon, and a handful of cool but restricted skills)
Feats: Good-bye to mounted combat, item creation, most meta-magic, Improved Move feats (Imp Bullrush), Whirlwind atk, etc. This leaves simple feats that add to abilities directly as apposed to giving complex ones or avoiding AoO. See below.
Combat: No AoO. The exception is for spellcasters casting, like it was in older D&D. Most of the combat manuevers wouldn't grant AoOs, so feats to avoid them are null. Simplefy ala 3.5 wherever possible.
Spells: A descent mix of 0-3rd level spells for most caster classes. To save room, rangers get A spell off the druid list, paladin get a spell off the cleric list. Simplify spells as needed (no M components, for example)
Equip: Stick with classic weapons + a few exotics.
Monsters: A fine array of CR 1/2- 7. Dimishing of course, but at least most of the classic baddies from myth and stories.
Magic Items: Probably nothing not on the minor tables.
Gods: Ignore deities for clerics, or use some good ones (alignment) from the PHB.
Look: I think the looking is going to a softer dungeon-punk, not as crazy, but unique. Something Realmslike (which is nice) over the classic hardline.
Lets see if I'm right!
All 11 classes, 3.5 revised as necessary. Better compatability with the larger game, allows for the "archetypes" needed for newer players to latch onto. (Well, we may disagree on what a barbarian is, most middle-High School students will accept a raging wildman.) Obviously, they would be trimmed down from un-necessary rules, and probably stop advancement at 6th level. (Why 6th, first secondary attack for warriors, 3rd level magic for sorcerers)
All 7 races, but trimmed down as needed.
Skills: The "dungeon skills" plus some RP ones. Balance, Jump, Tumble, Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, Climb, Swim, Open Lock, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Hide, Move Silent, Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Movtive and Intimidate. (This pretty much removes crarft, knowledge, professon, and a handful of cool but restricted skills)
Feats: Good-bye to mounted combat, item creation, most meta-magic, Improved Move feats (Imp Bullrush), Whirlwind atk, etc. This leaves simple feats that add to abilities directly as apposed to giving complex ones or avoiding AoO. See below.
Combat: No AoO. The exception is for spellcasters casting, like it was in older D&D. Most of the combat manuevers wouldn't grant AoOs, so feats to avoid them are null. Simplefy ala 3.5 wherever possible.
Spells: A descent mix of 0-3rd level spells for most caster classes. To save room, rangers get A spell off the druid list, paladin get a spell off the cleric list. Simplify spells as needed (no M components, for example)
Equip: Stick with classic weapons + a few exotics.
Monsters: A fine array of CR 1/2- 7. Dimishing of course, but at least most of the classic baddies from myth and stories.
Magic Items: Probably nothing not on the minor tables.
Gods: Ignore deities for clerics, or use some good ones (alignment) from the PHB.
Look: I think the looking is going to a softer dungeon-punk, not as crazy, but unique. Something Realmslike (which is nice) over the classic hardline.
Lets see if I'm right!
Re: Kiddie appeal of art in PH, DMG and MM
You're right. I half-retract my comment. I think the WoTC look is very 'generation Y'; and I'm not surprised it appeals to children & younger teens, it just bugs an old gen-Xer like me (those who reached maturity pre-end of the millenium)
I do think the LoTR look would have wide appeal though, of course it's very close to the classic Games Workshop/Citadel look I grew up with in the '80s.
Maggan said:
You're right. I half-retract my comment. I think the WoTC look is very 'generation Y'; and I'm not surprised it appeals to children & younger teens, it just bugs an old gen-Xer like me (those who reached maturity pre-end of the millenium)
I do think the LoTR look would have wide appeal though, of course it's very close to the classic Games Workshop/Citadel look I grew up with in the '80s.
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