D&D for children

[Jack7]

One thought, though: perhaps it's more important to have a game with the flavor of D&D (wizards, dragons, spells, swords, derring-do) than the mechanics, at least until the child is of an age where computing ability scores, to-hit rolls, and such is interesting to a young person? Age will differ, but maybe in the 8 to 10 year-old range?

I agree with this as well Eri. Whereas such a game could easily be used to introduce math, and even rules, the idea of mechanics per se would be the last thing I would concentrate upon. I'd much rather focus on imagination, problem solving, and learning new things when it come to kids.

 

[olshanski]

My 5 year old plays plenty of Diablo 2, which is all about killing things and taking stuff.

I am working on a set of simplified RPG rules that he can play with his friends in a few months... (when he is 6).

I am troubled by the 3E and 4E assumptions that you primarily gain experience for "overcoming challenges" (ie, killing things).
I do not think that 1E/2E version was much better (that you primarily gain experience for acquiring loot).

My version is going to have experience earned by completing quests, and by accomplishing personal goals... closer to the way things are handled in the Shadow of Yesterday.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

Olshanski, I think you should re-read the 4E Dungeon Master's Guide, which includes Skill Challenges and Quests as good sources of XP

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I agree that Hasbro/WotC should market a "beginner rpg" marketed to 5-8 year-old kids, with lots of fairies, princesses, knights and semi-scary monsters

Use the D&D name, but just as a reference... Something like "Dungeons and Dragons presents: Fantasy Adventures!"

 

[olshanski]

Olshanski, I think you should re-read the 4E Dungeon Master's Guide, which includes Skill Challenges and Quests as good sources of XP

Amphirmir, You'll note that I didn't say "the ONLY method of gaining experience"--I said it was the primary means of gaining experience. Sure in your personal game you might have no combat and every encounter is a skill challenge, but that is not how the game is written, nor is it how the vast majority of the population plays it.

Then I think you should re-read 3E, 3.5E, and 4E and compare how many pages of rules are devoted to combat vs how many pages of rules are devoted to skills... then compare in 4E published adventures by WoTC what is the ratio of skill challenges to combat encounters. You'll see that in 3E and 4E the primary method of gaining experience is through combat. In my experience with 4E, I'd say the ratio of combat to skill challenges is about 4/1 (80% combat). I haven't read enough published adventures to be sure how prevalent this trend is. I have reviewed about 20 3E/3.5E adventures, and part of my standard review format involves a comparison of the ratio of combat to non-combat encounters. In 3E/3.5E the overall ratio was about 85% combat to 15% skill challenges. (I am defining skill challenges in 3E/3.5E as encounters with traps or NPCs that require diplomacy, or weird situations in which Search or Wilderness Lore is key to overcoming a challenge).

Then go ahead and read The Shadow of Yesterday and you'll see that it is perfectly viable to create a cowardly negotiator who only gains experience talking his way past problems and running away from fights. The idea that the less you fight the more experience you gain is a polar opposite of D&D 3E, 3.5E, and 4E.

Can you imagine the difference in the game in 4E if killing monsters was worth zero experience?

 

[Mercutio01]

Is is even remotely possible to keep edition wars out of ANY thread?

 

[olshanski]

Is is even remotely possible to keep edition wars out of ANY thread?

Apparently not.
I thought I was making a fair observation that 1E/2E the primary method of gaining XP was by acquiring loot, and in 3E/4E the primary method of gaining XP is by fighting. I made no claim that one verson was better than the other.

In designing a game for children, I think both paradigms should be jettisoned. I don't want my kids to think that violence is the primary means of achieving objectives, nor do I want them to think that acquiring loot is the primary means of achieving objectives.

If anything, going completely to a quest-based method of earning XP or a goals-based method would be prefereable for a kids RPG.

As far as a kids board game, then I think you are fine with scoring points or beating the boss, or whatever the endgame is.

 

[kitsune9]

Forked from: No 5e threads for now, please

I've always thought it would be a great idea to have a non-violent, more "cutesy" D&D edition for children. The elements are all there: gnomes, trolls, pixies, halflings, toy soldiers, magic and big adventures...

If it was supported by colourful, easy-to-grasp modules it could be an excellent education tool and something fun for parents to do with their kids, and would boost the future market substantially.

D&D used to be aimed at kids (exhibit 1: the old cartoon show), but the target audience aged during the game's progression through editions. Hasbro already makes children's games, so it would seem like an obvious addition.

Why not?

Why not just play make believe with the kids and roll dice so they think they're playing their parents' game? Who should really care about rules and other things when kids want to just beat up monsters or pretend to be princesses, knights, etc.

Then when they get older and want to get out of the make believe phase and just play, then you'd just introduce them to D&D or other rpg.

 

[Rel]

I've got a good bit of experience with this as my daughter (who will be EIGHT next week! Where does the time go?!) has been playing increasingly more complex games since she was about 3.

When we started out I would just make these little adventures for her that were basically LARPs with lots of props/stuffed animals/treasure maps, etc. Her first experience with what I'd term an actual RPG (in the sense that she had a character with specific abilities and outcomes were based on dice rolls) was using Descent in a non-competitive way. That worked incredibly well as Descent already has all the components in place including things like character advancement and the dice conventions are very elegant. In fact it was also a great teaching tool since her adding up Wounds and subtracting Armor were great for her math skills.

We have since played Savage Worlds (Low Life), 4e D&D (a little) and just last week she played in both the sessions of Basic (Moldvay) D&D that I ran during our vacation up the east coast. She also ran a session of the game that she designed herself, Game In A Jar. I've posted about it here before but I could probably dig up a link if folks were interested.

 

[Hairfoot]

What I'm thinking of is something more visually oriented than conventional RPGs.

So, big, colourful character sheets, counters and toy-like objects to represent stats and abilities etc. More toward the Talisman style of representation. And more than actual games, I'm thinking of accesory products like comics, colouring-in books, plushy kobolds and such.

Roleplaying games are an extension of storytelling, so I'd like to see more, adventurous stories aimed at young readers and packed full of D&Disms. Better yet, if the same artists were brought in for a kids' line, they'd make an obvious link between the toys/storybooks and the adult games.

Just saying it sounds like a marketing exercise, but I clearly remember the childhood like-storybooks-but-real experience that made me a lifelong gamer.