D&D Game Table not Mac-Compatible at launch

[Mistwell]

Nope. Most users of new Macs might be able to boot into Windows, if they buy a license for Windows. The overwhelming majority of Mac users in the world have not yet upgraded to the new Intel-based Macs, though.

/M

But presumably they eventually will, right? I mean...computers don't last forever. Is this an issue that is self correcting with time (probably with 3-4 years for the overwhelming majority of people)?

We are down to 10% who use Macs. And some large percentage of that 10% can boot into Windows already (though they may not want to), and then a large percentage of the remaining will replace their systems with systems that can boot into windows in the next several years. So really, how big of an issue are we talking about here? 2%?

 

[Mistwell]

And yet Blizzard makes it work just fine with WoW. You assume PCs users subsidize the cost of making it mac compatible. That is the case when macs are an afterthought. It is not the case when it is planned for from the start.

That WotC is not planning for it from the start tells me that the DI is practically a bootstrap effort not much better than their current online/software efforts.

WoW PC users do in fact subsidize the Mac users on that system, with the increased price they pay for the product. Regardless of planning, it takes time and resources to convert it to use on a Mac, even if planned correctly from the beginning. Let's not deny that fact.

When you are dealing with the HUGE numbers involved with WOW, it's a heck of a lot easier for the PC users to absorb the cost of the Mac users, because it is spread over so many people. But when dealing with the relatively small number of users for D&D, the cost would be more noticeable.

 

[Maggan]

But presumably they eventually will, right? I mean...computers don't last forever. Is this an issue that is self correcting with time (probably with 3-4 years for the overwhelming majority of people)?

I think the average use of Macs are closer to five to six years. But yeah, sooner or later, most people running Macs will have Intel based machines.

/M

 

[Mistwell]

If you go to Frys and buy a non-OEM copy of Windows XP it is $199.

Online you can find legal editions from reputable companies for around $100.

 

[Horacio]

Fair enough. But I have very little sympathy for you. You are asking me to pay to subsidize your personal choices. It's not that you can't use it, it's that you have objections unrelated to WOTC that hangs you up on issues that make you choose to not use it. That's on you, not the 90% of users you are asking to subsidize your choices.

Developing cross-platform software isn't more expensive or more difficult than developing Windows-only software, and it doesn't look or feels less good.

You can have sympathy or not, but I don't ask anybody to subsidize anything. I only ask WotC to make an application for 99.9% of users and not only for 90%. I guessed their user base is not big enough to allow them ignore 9.9% of them...

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Regardless of planning, it takes time and resources to convert it to use on a Mac, even if planned correctly from the beginning.

Everything I have read about Blizzard's programming of cross-platform software is that the discipline of wanting to make it cross platform leads them to program more efficiently so that the code is reusable. That the portion that needs tweaking to make it work on multiple platforms is minimal.

So it was planned for from the beginning. The PCs users subsidize nothing because it is a minimal effort, easily paid for by mac users alone, to get the small portion of the software that is mac specific to be feature-equal to the PC side.

 

[HatWearingFool]

Third, the D&DI client applications will be developed for the PC platform. Two of the D&DI applications use a 3D game engine based on DirectX (The game table and the character builder, both demoed in their prototype version at Gencon). The other applications will be designed for windows, but will not rely on this 3D game engine so that they can be used on lower end platforms (possibly including intel based macs with dual boot). Our recommended specs for the PC platform includes Windows XP SP2, 512MB RAM, AMD XP 2400 + or Intel P4 2.6Ghz, and a graphic card with 128 MB RAM and support of shader 2.0.
We have not yet established our minimum specifications at that time

Based on these specs I'm pretty sure neither VMware Fusion or Parallels will allow you to run this software on a mac. This is because virtual machines don't handle Direct 3D that well.

However, using Boot Camp to boot to another partition will probably allow most Intel based mac users to run this software. Of course this completely sucks since it mean losing access to most (if not all) of your programs and important files.

I would also like to point out that although these minimum specs are not that awe inspiring they are high enough that they could prove troublesome for people who purchased an average-to-low end PC's more than 2 years ago. This will likely be an even larger problem for people who bought laptops (which traditionally lag behind in specs compared to desktops). I wonder how many players Computers are good enough to run this stuff? I'm pretty sure that poor students that purchased the cheapest laptop they could find 2 years ago can't (or at least not well). Remember that while these are low specs for the gaming market a good portion of D&Der's have likely been using computers that are "good enough" for e-mail, web surfing, and document creation for many years now.

Anyways you can count me as another pissed mac user. However, I have to assume that before making a decision this big wizards would have been smart enough to check the operating systems of the people using their forums. I'm sure they wouldn't have gone ahead in this direction if ~20% of their active online fan base used non-windows PC's.

They other thing I hoped they have noted is the explosion of popularity in MacBook (laptop) sales. It's one of the highest selling laptops and I'm betting alot of those sales are to new students (which I would assume to be the TARGET market they are aiming for)

 

[Mistwell]

Developing cross-platform software isn't more expensive or more difficult than developing Windows-only software, and it doesn't look or feels less good.

You can have sympathy or not, but I don't ask anybody to subsidize anything. I only ask WotC to make an application for 99.9% of users and not only for 90%. I guessed their user base is not big enough to allow them ignore 9.9% of them...

Look, your assertion that it doesn't cost more is just plain false. It DOES cost more. It's not done seamlessly, even with the open source products out there. You have to devote more time and resources to programming it, and debugging and testing it. It's just that such costs become pretty small when you spread them across as many users as WOW has.

 

[Mistwell]

Everything I have read about Blizzard's programming of cross-platform software is that the discipline of wanting to make it cross platform leads them to program more efficiently so that the code is reusable. That the portion that needs tweaking to make it work on multiple platforms is minimal.

Minimal relative to over 7 million users. Not minimal relative to the D&D community we are dealing with.

It's OK to be upset. But it's not OK to misrepresent what you guys are asking for. It's not as easy as you guys think to make it work on multiple platforms. It really does cost extra, and the cost would be born by everyone. That is, unless you as a Mac user are willing to pay a lot more for your software than the PC users.

 

[Horacio]

Look, your assertion that it doesn't cost more is just plain false. It DOES cost more. It's not done seamlessly, even with the open source products out there. You have to devote more time and resources to programming it, and debugging and testing it. It's just that such costs become pretty small when you spread them across as many users as WOW has.

I don't know what are your data for saying that my assertion is false, but you're plainly wrong.

Maybe in graphics intensive 3D games you could have a point, and even there that is less and less true.

I'm software engineer by trade, I work 8+ hours every day defining, designing, developing, modifying and supporting cross-platform applications. In my experience, the extra time you need (mainly in designing time, if you do things properly, and in thinking a bit more before writing the code) is clearly compensated in bug-hunting time by the cleaner code.

And even if it cost, let's say, 10% more, it would be compensated by the 10% of costumers.


I guess I should shut up before this degenerate...