D&D is dying by the hour

[Green Knight]

I also think the backward compatibility of Pathfinder will seriously suffer and has indeed already done so.

Backwards compatibility is really a losing battle. It's pointless trying to build a new rules system, while allowing stuff written with the old rules system in mind, because a lot of the stuff from the old rules will end up either nerfed or broken as a result. Warhammer 40k is having just that problem with both 4th and now 5th edition. They're trying to remain backwards compatible while at the same time moving the rules forward. It's a nice try, but at the end of the day, there's a point when you just have to make a clean break with what came before if you're going to come up with a whole new rules set. Because otherwise you end up with an ungodly, broken mess.

 

[JohnBiles]

Now that we are approaching release of 4th edition I am starting to wonder if Wizards are simply killing D&D as the clock ticks.

There is zero chance they are killing off D&D. Unless the head of the company has gone insane and now has mind-control powers, anyway.

There are several factors that leads me to say this: First off a lot of the new stuff such as Gleemax and DnDInsider didn't really live up to my (and a lot of other peoples and publishers) expectations. Neither did the previews that people have gotten of the online-tools.

I pretty much expected a giant mess here, given that WOTC is trying to go outside its core competency. But they've also been trying to improve things.

The next big failure in the launching of 4th edition was/is the annoucement of a GSL due to be out in november, which no publisher has yet seen. Not even a rules-preview for "close 3rd party publishers" as with 3rd edition.

This, I think, is a definite major screwup; I expect there is a struggle going on inside WOTC over the right way to do it.

This led to the third big blow for Wizards: The Paizo annoucement of their own RPG / 3.5 compatible.

Now ususally when you up, or big things such as the 3rd party publisher not going 4th ed you need to do something. The LEAST Wizards could do is to communicate with the fans. Instead we get a deadly silence, making things even worse. No reassurances or any kind of comments on how 4th will be launched when no 3rd party publishers will be ready. Neither any comments on the GSL and what is happening.

They don't NEED 3rd party publishers. 1E and 2E both survived without any official 3rd party publishers. And 4th edition is already being printed and about to be sent off to distributors.

Also, why would Wizards say anything about Paizo. If Ford releases a new line of SUVs, does Chrysler make an announcement about it? No. What would Wizards say, anyway? 'DIE, PAIZO DIE!!!!!' ?? I incline to think the silence means they don't need to say anything here.

Having followed the MMO-business for a couple of years I would say that in MMO language long silence from a developer almost always means that someone is pulling the plug. Even if a game (in this case the GSL) gets delayed 1-2 years the least the developer can do is communicate. By each hour that Wizards keeps silent, they frustrate and alienate possible 4th ed. players. Initially contact was good and Wiz-VIPs regularly showed up on various boards. Now we get nothing. While Paizo is actively communicates with their fans on a regular basis, Wizards is completely silent about major events that are of importance to the 4th edition. Who cares about crunch and fluff, when the game you love is heading for an unsecure future, and other parties (Paizo) picking up where Wizards left the fans hanging. We as gamers are not stupid - we are not only interested in getting the newest releases from Wizards, no questions asked. As "modern" consumers we want to know what is going on behind the curtain...

MMO-s need to communicate because their customers are on a subscription and usually are involved in daily interaction with the product. This is a very different model from tabletop RPGs, where you just buy their product at a store, intermittently.

And given the number of threads on this board which are based on developer posts, I wouldn't say we have total radio silence.

And I am more interested in crunch and fluff than the internal affairs of WOTC, which I consider to be largely none of my business.

 

[ShadowDenizen]

I don't think Wizards is "killing" D+D [necessarily]. I think 4E will launch and do well; perhaps not as well as they would like or expect, but enough to make it worth the companys while.

But, IMHO,they ARE manhandling the much-loved property; but YMMV, of course.

With the launch of 4E mere months away, Gleemax is still in the ALpha testing stage (and in a shambles at that, IMHO), we haven't heard much about the DDI, and, AFAIK, publishers have not seen hide nor hair of GSL. (Come to think of it, didn't they JUST post the lead IT developed position about 6 months ago or so??)

I think the loss of Paizo DOES strike a blow against Wizards, but, honestly, I think it's a situation they [WotC] brought upon themselves. Paizo has earned their reputation publishing Dungeon and Dragon magazines, and now Pathfinder;their love for the game is apparent, and they've been up-front and honest in all their discussions.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone going to 4E; I was neutral about it when I first heard, but have since decided it's just not for me.

 

[Reynard]

Nope, because most of the D&D fans don't care. They don't go to on line forums, they don't read the latest ground breaking news. They just play the game and enjoy it. They speak with the dollar and little else.

Yet, the online component -- both in play and from a community aspect -- is a fundamental aspect of 4E's strategy. How's that work?

 

[WayneLigon]

Initially contact was good and Wiz-VIPs regularly showed up on various boards. Now we get nothing. While Paizo is actively communicates with their fans on a regular basis, Wizards is completely silent about major events that are of importance to the 4th edition.

Rouse is on these boards quite regularly. A lot of your designers were probably chased off by the rampant, mindless negativity of a small group of people who post a lot. The tenth or twentieth time you read some guy going on about how everything from WoTC sucks because of Insane Pet Theory X, I can imagine that many of them decided they had better things to do with their time.

 

[Gargazon]

Yet, the online component -- both in play and from a community aspect -- is a fundamental aspect of 4E's strategy. How's that work?

No it's not, it's an optional tool that Wizards are supplying to help the community. I imagine there'll be people playing 4th Edition without so much as peaking at the internet to find something.

 

[The Little Raven]

Yet, the online component -- both in play and from a community aspect -- is a fundamental aspect of 4E's strategy. How's that work?

This time they're actually putting things in the physical books to refer people to check out the website, which is more likely to draw a non-hardcore fan into checking out D&D Insider. Plus, they've got to make sure they have infrastructure in place, since the Internet isn't going anywhere, and adoption rates for online gaming will only increase as the years march on.

 

[Crothian]

Yet, the online component -- both in play and from a community aspect -- is a fundamental aspect of 4E's strategy. How's that work?

The books and rules are the fundamental strategy. The on line stuff is just bonus. But it is pretty tough to judge the on line stuff till it comes out.

 

[Roland55]

I don't think that Wizards is killing off D&D by not communicating.

I think they are not communicating information about the GSL progress because that is happening in rooms with lawyers and lawyers tend to be tight-lipped.

I also think that it is premature to say that programs and website in their pre-alpha and alpha stages don't live up to expectations. I use Gleemax every day. It is wonky and difficult, but it's not even in beta yet. Personally, I was impressed by the Game Table app demoed at D&D Experience, especially given that it was a pre-alpha version.

Finally, I don't think the Paizo Pathfinder system is as big a blow to 4e as you think it is. When I think of Paizo's 3.x content, I think of Dungeon, Dragon, and Adventure Paths. The magazines are now being published by Wizards and it seems as though Wizards will be returning an emphasis to publishing adventures since there are already 5-7 4e adventures in their product catalogue. My guess would be that they will publish a 1-30 adventure path each year to accompany the annual campaign setting.

In general, I agree.

I see the PRPG differently. I see it as a way to please D&D players who would otherwise simply exit the game entirely ... and maybe even stop playing RPGs. While it may extend the active lifetime of 3.5E, please remember that it will also keep gamers around who might well choose to move to 4E (or 5E, etc.) at a later date.

Will the existence of the PRPG hurt initial sales? Perhaps, but most likely only in very small way. I think this is a small price to pay for keeping the gamers around ... gamers that might be very hard to replace.

I'd like to see Adventures and even Adventure Paths from as many publishers as possible.

 

[xechnao]

I see the PRPG differently. I see it as a way to please D&D players who would otherwise simply exit the game entirely ... and maybe even stop playing RPGs. While it may extend the active lifetime of 3.5E, please remember that it will also keep gamers around who might well choose to move to 4E (or 5E, etc.) at a later date.

Will the existence of the PRPG hurt initial sales? Perhaps, but most likely only in very small way. I think this is a small price to pay for keeping the gamers around ... gamers that might be very hard to replace.

Yes, I also see that you have a point here.