D&D General D&D: Literally Don't Understand This

[Scribe]

No, not specifically.

Whizbang referenced a few specific hugely-successful-in-pop-culture fantasy properties as examples of fantasy IPs which are contemporaneous with 5E and likely reference points for modern (younger than us) D&D buyers and fantasy fans. (Side note: As a tiny piece of anecdotal evidence, I have a younger relative who's a recent college grad who was super into Minecraft and got into 5E as a teenager as well.)

Maybe I misunderstood you, but it seemed like, in your reply to Umbran, you were suggesting that those particular properties couldn't been inspirational to/informative of 5E. I was just pointing out that the ones he mentioned all predate it and were big before it, so if the 5E designers were taking anything from then-current pop culture fantasy, they would indeed have all been in the zeitgeist.

Though I think the point being made was less about what the 5E designers found inspirational (they're mostly older folks, and as you mentioned, in Appendix E they name older stuff) and more about what the current wave of Gen Z and Millennial fantasy fans have as reference points for fantasy. Given that anime, for example, is indeed hugely represented in the fantasy media these generations consume, I'm almost surprised that current WotC D&D art and products don't resemble anime even more than they do now.

Right and again, I have no problem saying those IP's are formative for some people, or even would be seen as inspirational to 5.5.

HOWEVER.

They are not present in 5e as released, the edition with is still claimed to be evergreen, until 6e comes out, and upon which 5.5 is based.

5e is not 'inspired by minecraft, avatar, anime, and league of legends'. 5e, is the apology edition that was meant to go back to the games actual roots.

 

[Gradine]

I really don't see why you seem resistant to people expressing their opinion that a particular product doesn't meet their aesthetic preferences, and speculating that the game's aesthetic in general is moving away from those preferences. That opinion is, after all, just as valid as yours.

Depending on the basis of that opinion, this idea is actually false. Especially when said basis in founded in animus regarding particular groups of people. Now, generally speaking, in the absence of people outright speaking their point of view, figuring this out is primarily speculation. But in the presence of enough evidence, such speculation is quite a bit more than baseless. So when somebody pointing out multiple examples of art they similarly don't like, and that art seems to somehow, coincidentally, almost all include people of color? That's a hint. If someone finds the best way to express their ideas is to utilize pop cultural references founded in... extremely unsavory biases? That's evidence.

There's a particular conversation thread here about how someone may or may not be providing evidence of a point of view they may or may not actually possess. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, what is one to expect?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Given that anime, for example, is indeed hugely represented in the fantasy media these generations consume, I'm almost surprised that current WotC D&D art and products don't resemble anime even more than they do now.

It feels like every other RPG publisher will eventually have an anime or anime-adjacent RPG before WotC finally decides that's a direction to pursue.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Right and again, I have no problem saying those IP's are formative for some people, or even would be seen as inspirational to 5.5.

HOWEVER.

They are not present in 5e as released, the edition with is still claimed to be evergreen, until 6e comes out, and upon which 5.5 is based.

5e is not 'inspired by minecraft, avatar, anime, and league of legends'. 5e, is the apology edition that was meant to go back to the games actual roots.

Who are you disagreeing with here? That's not an argument I was making.

 

[Cadence]

museum cafes and gift shops, etc...

I totally lost the thread of where this came from. But I had to go look it up the Dragon Magazine adventure that I thought I might have one. The adventure in issue 100 (August 1985) has both a museum restaurant and museum gift shop. Although, to be fair, the D&D adventure takes place in our world.

 

[Mannahnin]

Right and again, I have no problem saying those IP's are formative for some people, or even would be seen as inspirational to 5.5.

Cool.

HOWEVER.

They are not present in 5e as released, the edition with is still claimed to be evergreen, until 6e comes out, and upon which 5.5 is based.

5e is not 'inspired by minecraft, avatar, anime, and league of legends'. 5e, is the apology edition that was meant to go back to the games actual roots.

Ehhh.... It IS that, but it's not ONLY that. PART of what it did was try to roll back some of the more radical changes of 4E and appeal to the OSR and older crowd.

But I think it was also aiming to be more accessible for younger gamers and a "bridge" edition for all D&D fans.

In the sense that it's an apology edition I think it was less an apology to older fans and more an apology to the fanbase as a whole for "splitting the party" and inadvertently sparking the edition wars. Parts of it are aimed at appealing to and drawing back in older players, but it wasn't primarily for us. It was for everyone.

 

[Scribe]

Who are you disagreeing with here? That's not an argument I was making.

OK, so we are in agreement that 5e is not inspired by minecraft, anime, league of legends, or Avatar?

Then I must have misunderstood somewhere along the line.

 

[Mannahnin]

It feels like every other RPG publisher will eventually have an anime or anime-adjacent RPG before WotC finally decides that's a direction to pursue.

Which is kind of hilarious when I think about the Japanese RC localization Questing Beast showcased recently.

TSR: Inadvertently has the first or one of the first games appealing to anime fans, in the 1980s with Record of Lodoss War being a B/X Actual Play, and in the early 90s with the Japanese localization of the Rules Cyclopedia. Fails entirely to capitalize on it. Sword World is spawned in Japan, many other Western publishers do anime-inspired games.

WotC: Four decades later, still not really pitching for the anime fan bucks.

 

[Scribe]

Cool.

Ehhh.... It IS that, but it's not ONLY that. PART of what it did was try to roll back some of the more radical changes of 4E and appeal to the OSR and older crowd.

But I think it was also aiming to be more accessible for younger gamers and a "bridge" edition for all D&D fans.

In the sense that it's an apology edition I think it was less an apology to older fans and more an apology to the fanbase as a whole for "splitting the party" and inadvertently sparking the edition wars. Parts of it are aimed at appealing to and drawing back in older players, but it wasn't primarily for us. It was for everyone.

Yes, I get it, but please lets just make it plain.

Point me to the 5e PHB sections which are clear call outs to Avatar, Anime, Minecraft, and League of Legends.

Instead of Howard, Moorcock, 3e, Drizzt, and the like.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

OK, so we are in agreement that 5e is not inspired by minecraft, anime, league of legends, or Avatar?

Then I must have misunderstood somewhere along the line.

Yes, I was saying what @Mannahnin was explaining better: The young audience that makes up the majority of 5E players, per WotC, is interested in modern fantasy stuff.

And the fact that D&D PCs and NPCs don't look like did in the 1E era is a reflection of that audience's tastes. Most of today's fans don't care about Thomas Covenant, etc., any more than I cared about The Worm Ouroubos when I was their age.