D&D Magic -- how would you fix it?

[tetsujin28]

This always amuses me.

What's one of the foremost complaints about the D&D magic system?

"All the spells are combat-based; they've got 14,000 ways to blow each other up, but there's no spells to solve [Generic Social Problem X] or [Perform Mundane Task Y]."

And yet, here we have people arguing that the admittedly small steps D&D has taken in that direction should be removed.

Un-be-lieveable!

You're not involved in too many arguments about social charms in Exalted, are you?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

- Spells should be coherent with the rest of the game. If a spell might make you fall over, that's a BALANCE check. If a spell helps you open locks, then it gives you a bonus to your open lock skill and lets you open a lock as an action included with the spell. If it creates a zone of silence, then it adds to listen DCs. Etc.

Arcana Evolved does a lot of this, too.

 

[sniffles]

I haven't read all of the posts in this thread, so this might have been said, but while I don't think the magic system is broken, it could use some improvements. I'd like to see separate spell lists for all spellcasting classes - and I mean *separate* - no overlapping spells from one list to another. This might require making the spell lists shorter for each class.

I'd also like to see spell DCs increase with character level, not just spell level - a 20th level wizard's 0-level spells should be harder to resist/dispel than a 1st-level wizard's spell of the same name.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

How would you fix the D&D Magic system (assuming you feel it is broken)?

Well it's not "broken" as such, but it still could do with a more severe overhaul than it got for 3E. It's problem is not... mechanical in nature. IMO the problem lies in properly ordering spell powers and descriptions based on their usefulness and impact upon the play of the game.

A few examples might be in order to illustrate. Fly is a 2nd level spell, but the ABILITY of flight has an incredible impact upon what you can do in the game and how you can do it. Because of that, Fly, should be a higher level spell. In the same vein of transportation Teleport can be a game-breaker. Once PC's have the ability to routinely move all over your campaign world without needing to travel THROUGH it braving the routine hazards that result from travel in a dangerous world the campaign changes drastically. Raise Dead. Resurrection. Polymorph. Speak with Dead. Zone of Truth. Etc. These spells can rather drastically alter how the game needs to be run if either the PC's or NPC's have them readily available and their levels need to be set accordingly.

Other examples are as plentiful as the list of spells available.

Just MHO

 

[Anime Kidd]

Wheel of Time. Well, basically. I think the existing spells could be grouped in ways that'd make that system work extremely well. If I had a month or so I could devote to it, I'd do it myself. So, D&D spells and the WoT system.

I like what I've read about the WoT magic system. Many spells would fit nicely in the system, like the various Cure X Wounds and Summon Monster spells. I'd only wish they would make it open-game content though.

 

[Psion]

Well it's not "broken" as such, but it still could do with a more severe overhaul than it got for 3E. It's problem is not... mechanical in nature. IMO the problem lies in properly ordering spell powers and descriptions based on their usefulness and impact upon the play of the game.

Unfortunately, the scaling of factors that aren't strictly mechanical is highly subjective in nature.

Fly is a 2nd level spell, but the ABILITY of flight has an incredible impact upon what you can do in the game and how you can do it. Because of that, Fly, should be a higher level spell.

It is a higher level spell.

In the same vein of transportation Teleport can be a game-breaker. Once PC's have the ability to routinely move all over your campaign world without needing to travel THROUGH it braving the routine hazards that result from travel in a dangerous world the campaign changes drastically.

And this is a perfect example of the subjectivity of which I speak. For many GMs, travel should be an Indiana Jones style line on the map. Teleport only facilitates that.

 

[Greg K]

Okay just some other things

I think
1. The utility belt spells (ie those which mimic skills (like find direction, find the path, snare, detect pits etc) should be deleted - if you want it take the skill.

I would not delete them. I would just have each spell give a bonus to the appropriate skill check.

 

[Greg K]

The problem imho is when things which should be basic skills get turned into spells take Know Direction

In my opinon, the problem is that they tend to be absolutely successful. Changing the spell to give a skill bonus would be better.

 

[Greg K]

Now a spell to confuse direction (an illusion to change the external reference points makes sense. A spell to find north is dumb- are adventurers in DnD really so lame that they can't determine north without the use of magic! ....

Okay, you are underground with no sun, stars and no landmark. For some reason, you have had to flee at top speed, either because of a spell or you are trying to avoid something that has wiped out the party and is coming after you next, and were therefore unable to map. You know you have entered the dungeon or cavern from the north. Unfortunately, you now have no reference point.

 

[Tonguez]

Okay, you are underground with no sun, stars and no landmark. For some reason, you have had to flee at top speed, either because of a spell or you are trying to avoid something that has wiped out the party and is coming after you next, and were therefore unable to map. You know you have entered the dungeon or cavern from the north. Unfortunately, you now have no reference point.

and I'm a Dwarf fighter with no access to magic - therefore I am stuffed.

Except of course that as a dwarf I've spent my entire life underground with no sun and no stars and there are landmarks for those who know them- tell tale draughts, the way the stone groans in a particular way, my innate sense of 'depth'. All these along with my Survival skill amd Kungeoneering synergy bonus should give me a chance to locate the door.


oh and yes I agree having the spells give a +10 bonus to the skill check is probably better than deleting them