D&D Magic -- how would you fix it?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'll throw in my hat with the Arcana Evolved crew. It solves a lot of the problems with Vancian magic without going too far out into left field. I like the flavour of having differential access to spell lists, so that a fire mage is a fire mage with a single feat. I never liked the D&D specialist wizard, because it just didn't give any real specialty, only an extra spell. Boring...

I like playing wizards, but I think that if I were going to start over and chuck all the sacred cows, I'd probably go with AE's system, keep the warlock, and redesign the principal spellcasting classes.

The one change I can recommend without hesitation: Scrap the schools as we know them. As far as I can tell, they were a flavor element in 1E that has not proved strong enough to handle all the weight that's been placed upon them in later editions. Witness the question of where to place healing magic, the constant trouble the game has had with balancing different types of specialists, etc. Instead, I suggest replacing them with an expanded descriptor system, and allowing specialization based on descriptors and feats designed to interact with them.

Arcana Evolved did this.

 

[Dinkeldog]

You mean like Rolemaster Spell Lists?

I like Rolemaster's Spell Lists! (I just hate that I could never get a character to advance a level without becoming maimed...)

The games I DM, though, are pretty standard with the XPH added. I suppose I'd allow Arcana Unearthed if anyone were interested. Or Arcana Evolved if any of my players were interested in buying the book for me.

 

[DragonLancer]

That I don't understand - the whole point of psionics is to have a non-vancian magic system. If you want it to be vanican, you can just make up spells that mimic the psionic effects you want, and play wizards that cast those spells.

I know what you mean, but the core spellcasting classes work under a similar set of rules to one another. Psionics is a completely different system, one that I have found (both myself to start with and a couple of my players) to be so dissimilar to the usual spellcasting system, that its diffficult to get your head round sometimes. If the Psionics rules had been a little closer to the standard magic rules I think they would be better.

Obviously YMMV.

 

[Mercule]

Wheel of Time. Well, basically. I think the existing spells could be grouped in ways that'd make that system work extremely well. If I had a month or so I could devote to it, I'd do it myself. So, D&D spells and the WoT system.

 

[Mercule]

I like Rolemaster's Spell Lists! (I just hate that I could never get a character to advance a level without becoming maimed...)

What? It's not like you need both hands to cast a spell.

 

[painandgreed]

Say it with me: XP is not an expendable resource.

XP is not an expendable resource.

Other than that and a few logistic issues with how long it takes to make scrolls and learn spells I think it works pretty well. One thing I have done is made the magic system spontaneous casting using spell points, but this is a "high magic" that exists alongside the regular Vancian magic and has its own drawbacks in time taken to train and learn new spells so it is mostly just for NPCs.

 

[Tonguez]

This always amuses me.

What's one of the foremost complaints about the D&D magic system?

"All the spells are combat-based; they've got 14,000 ways to blow each other up, but there's no spells to solve [Generic Social Problem X] or [Perform Mundane Task Y]."

And yet, here we have people arguing that the admittedly small steps D&D has taken in that direction should be removed.

Un-be-lieveable!

Well personally I've never made that complaint and think that its wrong. Afterall there are whole schools - Divinition, Enchantment, Illusion - which are not combat-based. Lack of imagination is the only thing limiting people to combat only spells.

The problem imho is when things which should be basic skills get turned into spells take Know Direction

You instantly know the direction of north from your current position. The spell is effective in any environment in which “north” exists, but it may not work in extraplanar settings. Your knowledge of north is correct at the moment of casting, but you can get lost again within moments if you don’t find some external reference point to help you keep track of direction.

Now a spell to confuse direction (an illusion to change the external reference points makes sense. A spell to find north is dumb- are adventurers in DnD really so lame that they can't determine north without the use of magic! ....

 

[VirgilCaine]

I would not fix it, because I don't view it as broken, or even in bad repair. It's quick and conceptually simple, and needs few DM interpretations to get right. Sounds like it does what it is intended to do, and does it fairly well. Thus, no fixing required.

The only reason I can see for changing the system in general would be to change overall flavor of the game. But that isn't "fixing". That's "reimaging" or some similar Hollywoodism.

That's what I would say.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think the only real overhaul that D&D magic needs is the spell lists.

There should be some ground rules set out.

- For starters, a lot of the schools that spells belong to are messed up.
- Conjuration effects that ignore SR should be treated EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE PHYSICAL OBJECT WOULD BE. No magically directed arrows that strike at a distance of 400ft+40ft/level with no modifiers for distance (just as an example). And if you can't find a physical object that the spell is duplicating, you were making an evocation spell anyway, so put it in that school.
- There should probably be some sort of damage/effect by level guideline that actually gets stuck with...
- Spells should be coherent with the rest of the game. If a spell might make you fall over, that's a BALANCE check. If a spell helps you open locks, then it gives you a bonus to your open lock skill and lets you open a lock as an action included with the spell. If it creates a zone of silence, then it adds to listen DCs. Etc.
- Hit dice should never be used as a measure of a creature's power. No more "you can summon a critter with X hit dice". Summon by ECL(for long-term service) or CR(for short-term service).

 

[tetsujin28]

Well that's the point, isn't it? I think it isn't broken, and if it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Word. These kinds of arguments have been around since '74.