D&D needs to grow up

[I'm A Banana]

Kids buy more games.

D&D needs to appeal to kids.

Part of appealing to kids is being harmless enough to pass under the Parent's Radar.

Trendhopping is what D&D does best.

 

[SableWyvern]

Not if you're doing it right (applies to both RPGs & metal)

m/

Given that Ozzie era Black Sabbath has very little of any of those, I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one.

And I don't care what subgenre you're into, you can't dis Sabbath.

 

[Umbran]

Grim means dark, gritty means realistic.

Yes to the first, no to the second. Go take a look in a dictionary, I doubt you'll find "realistic" anywhere in the definition. Clint Eastwood did gritty westerns, but they aren't particularly realistic.

Gritty has a double connotation. One is if coarse dirt - gritty is not clean, there is no pure whiteness in gritty. The other is of courage in the face of danger. Realistic is one way to get gritty, but it isn't the only way. Any time where the way to winning isn't morally pristine, and is dangerous, you can have grit.

As many others, I think folks often confuse "adult" with "mature". Nipples are adult, deep emotion is mature. Blood and gore are adult, ethical complexity is mature. Alcohol is adult, drinking responsibly is mature. You can have adult themes in either a mature or an immature fashion. For example, the Gor books are adult, but not mature.

So, it seems to me that the D&D game rules (3rd or 4th) are quite open to mature play - it is far more a matter of setting and role play style than of rules.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

As some one who appreciates a certain amount of darkness in a campaign, I think that the absolute last thing that D&D needs at the moment is to base their entire concept on "This isn't your grandpa's D&D." This would almost immediately become a textbook case of trying too hard.

 

[withak]

As someone who currently plays with a youngster (two of my players are stepfather and stepson; the latter is 11) and as someone who wants to play RPGs with his own kids as soon as they're old enough to grasp the mechanics, I have to say "thanks, but no" to this idea. D&D is right about where it needs to be, thematically, for me.

 

[Mercurius]

Count me among those that do not equate "grim and gritty" with adult. Actually, I largely agree with Doug McCrae that the general gist of the original post was that of a more adolescent desire (no offense to the OP, especially considering I'm in adolescent education and, not to mention, that even "post-adolescents"--especially of my own Gen X--have extended adolescence well into the 30s, if not 40s).

Count me also among those that are not wowed by George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones and Michael Moorcock's ouevre. Both are excellent writers, both are too fascinated with "grim-grittiness" for my tastes.

Thanks for the C.S. Lewis quote, Psion, its a good one.

 

[RFisher]

Based on the reaction to the bloodthirsty halfling pic that was in Dragon, I think Wizards understands that they only “need” to go this route if they want to run-off a sizable chunk of their D&D customers.

 

[garyh]

Based on the reaction to the bloodthirsty halfling pic that was in Dragon, I think Wizards understands that they only “need” to go this route if they want to run-off a sizable chunk of their D&D customers.

Now you've made me curious. Got a link to that pic? Or an issue number, if it was during the 3.x era print run (I've got all of those)?

 

[Ycore Rixle]

What do I mean when I say D&D needs to grow up? I'm not talking about the rules. I'm referring to the artwork, fiction and the feel of the game.

Ah, I had such high hopes as I was reading this. I have this pet theory, see, that D&D needs to grow up the way science fiction did in the middle part of the 20th century, when people like Heinlein, Asimov, and Bradbury brought scifi out of the "literary ghetto" and into the realm of world-class letters. But I see that's not what you meant, so, alas, enough of that for now.

On topic, I think that D&D 4e did what 2e did. Namely, step back from some topics that some peopleobject to, including assassins, devils, and wandering prostitute tables. Personally, I prefer the 1e and 3e approach. But 4e is not as overboard as 2e in this regard, and the points of light default setting does do something to counter the other changes in this regard.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I'll give Martin, but I dunno if calling out Moorcock is really fair. He wrote to a specific audience at a specific time. Heck, his early stuff was preluded with something long the lines of "While Elric is physically puny, he uses vast and alien sorcery to make up for it!"