D&D 5E D&D Next Blog: Beyond Class & Race

[Blackwarder]

I don't get it. So that whole blog post basically says "We have pregenerated characters you can use if you want - just give it a name"?

OK. I guess that could be useful. Not sure the inclusion of pregens is worth a blog post, though.

I don't get from the blog that they are talking about pregenerated characters, for me it seems as if you will have a bunch of different backgrounds and theme that you will be able to choose from during character creation so one player will be able to make human fighter (noble)(knight) while another will make elf ranger (noble)(knight).

So the noble background will give you skills in nobley things and abilities while the knight theme will give you knighty feats and abilities.

I'm not sure if about the need to make the pregenerated stuff have extras to keep them viable, I guess it's somthing we will have to wait and see in the open testing.

I do see in the horizon a great book filled with backgrounds and themes.

Warder

 

[Morrus]

I don't get from the blog that they are talking about pregenerated characters, for me it seems as if you will have a bunch of different backgrounds and theme that you will be able to choose from during character creation so one player will be able to make human fighter (noble)(knight) while another will make elf ranger (noble)(knight).

So the noble background will give you skills in nobley things and abilities while the knight theme will give you knighty feats andr

Yeah. That's a pregen. If you have 6 x 6 options, you have a choice of 36 pregens. Or 100 if the book's really big and offers 10x10.

I'm not saying pregens are a bad thing. They're a useful tool and should be included. I just don't see why they're worth discussing (even if you call em "packages" instead).

It's not a criticism. It's just - well, duh!

 

[Blackwarder]

Yeah. That's a pregen. If you have 6 x 6 options, you have a choice of 36 pregens. Or 100 if the book's really big and offers 10x10.

I'm not saying pregens are a bad thing. They're a useful tool and should be included. I just don't see why they're worth discussing (even if you call em "packages" instead).

It's not a criticism. It's just - well, duh!

So a 2e character is a pregenerated character? After all you only need to choose race and class...

I'm prety sure that a pregenerated character is one that the player didn't decide anything about it beside maybe it's name.

Considering that there are going to be at least four classes and four races so using your numbers of six backgrounds and six themes we got 4x4x6x6 iirc that give you 586 pregenerated characters! And that before counting the umber of different abilities arrays!

I'm not trying to be confrontational, but it seems to me that we can't call this pregenerated characters.

Edit: btw I understand what you're aiming to, I thinknthat we need to wait and see what how it goes in play before passing judgement, it might be bland and meh or it might add a lot of flavor and texture to an otherwise a cookie cutter character.

Warder

 

[RangerWickett]

I like design that lets you go down a line and easily pick three to seven things to make what you want. I figure the core book would be something like

Race? 8 options (human, elf, 1/2 elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, tiefling, dragonborn)

Class? 4 options (fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard)

Schtick A? 15 options (military, priesthood, arcane study, criminal, wilderness, farmboy, noble, merchant, scholar, slave, vampire, werewolf, faerie, alien, nomad)

Schtick B? 15 options (archer, brawler, cavalier, duelist, earth, fire, water, air, shadow, light, berserker, healer, commander, acrobat, telepath)

And you can choose two A schticks or two B schticks, or even make up your own schticks using these guidelines.

It's quick inspiration, and much more interesting than just having, like, 8 pregens (here's Mialee, Regdar, Tordek, Lidda, Nebten, Soveliss, Alhandra, and Jozan). You give players the easy ability to come up with ideas of their own, and you can easily have 6000+ "pregens," such that no player would ever go through all the options.

I like it.

 

[Incenjucar]

The point I think Morrus is trying to get across is that this article was devoted to "Pick five skills, OR, pick one package of five pre-picked skills." and "Pick three feats, OR, pick one package of three pre-picked feats."

The only special thing is that they are killing 4E-style themes and replacing them with more reliance on feats, but skills and feats may not be as tied to class as they used to be.

 

[Argyle King]

I like design that lets you go down a line and easily pick three to seven things to make what you want. I figure the core book would be something like

Race? 8 options (human, elf, 1/2 elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, tiefling, dragonborn)

Class? 4 options (fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard)

Schtick A? 15 options (military, priesthood, arcane study, criminal, wilderness, farmboy, noble, merchant, scholar, slave, vampire, werewolf, faerie, alien, nomad)

Schtick B? 15 options (archer, brawler, cavalier, duelist, earth, fire, water, air, shadow, light, berserker, healer, commander, acrobat, telepath)

And you can choose two A schticks or two B schticks, or even make up your own schticks using these guidelines.

It's quick inspiration, and much more interesting than just having, like, 8 pregens (here's Mialee, Regdar, Tordek, Lidda, Nebten, Soveliss, Alhandra, and Jozan). You give players the easy ability to come up with ideas of their own, and you can easily have 6000+ "pregens," such that no player would ever go through all the options.

I like it.

That's the meaning I got from it as well, but my impression was that you'd get one choice from each bag, and not be able to (by default) choose twice from any one bag. One of the reasons for that being to separate features which relate to combat and features which relate to other stuff so you're not left with the choice between something like Weapon Expertise and [ insert pretty much any other feat that gives flavor to a character here.]

It also seems like a way to cut down on the amount of classes need by allowing some classes to now be defined by themes and backgrounds. An avenger might be a rogue with a divine background; a ranger might be a rogue with a wilderness background, and so on.

I wonder if themes and backgrounds now become the new driving force behind splat books.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Schtick A? 15 options (military, priesthood, arcane study, criminal, wilderness, farmboy, noble, merchant, scholar, slave, vampire, werewolf, faerie, alien, nomad)

Schtick B? 15 options (archer, brawler, cavalier, duelist, earth, fire, water, air, shadow, light, berserker, healer, commander, acrobat, telepath)

And you can choose two A schticks or two B schticks, or even make up your own schticks using these guidelines.

Not really--Schtick A is a skill list, and Schtick B is a feat path. "Make up your own" consists of just choosing which skills and feats you want.

Though the skill system is quite different in D&DN, so it'll be interesting to see that. What I mean is, there probably won't be a list of 20 or so skills, each called "theivery" or "athletics." It'll be stuff like "+2/+1 to STR checks made to climb walls" or "+2/+1 to DEX checks made to move silently." Hopefully there'll be one that says "+2/+1 to any one thing you can think of that your character might be good at (with DM approval)."

Feats on the other hand, as far as I know, are still just feats.

 

[Incenjucar]

Choose a background!


Thief Background:
Acrobatics, Thievery, Stealth, Perception, Bluff, Thieves Cant

Scoundrel Background:
Athletics, Thievery, Stealth, Perception, Intimidate, Thieves Cant


Choose a theme!

Lurker Theme:
Night Stalker Feat (+1d6 damage when hidden), Hidden Threat Feat (+2 to hit when hidden)

Thug Theme:
Brutal Bully Feat (+1d6 damage when flanking), Imposing Threat Feat (+2 to hit when flanking)

Screw that, I'm going to be creative!

Custom Background:
Acrobatics, Thievery, Stealth, Perception, Intimidate, Bluff

Custom Theme:
Night Stalker Feat, Brutal Bully Feat




That's what we're looking at.

 

[FireLance]

The only special thing is that they are killing 4E-style themes and replacing them with more reliance on feats, but skills and feats may not be as tied to class as they used to be.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that 5e feats could grant access to powers and power swaps, so 5e themes could still occupy the same mechanical space as 4e themes.

As it is, they already occupy the same flavor space: a concept or archetype, independent of class (at least, that's my reading).

The real advantage I see is better organization and linking of feats with flavor elements. As mentioned in my previous post, it would be better (at least to me) than the laundry list of feats we've seen in the past.

 

[dkyle]

None of this is an argument for making pre-fab stuff more powerful than custom stuff. It's an argument for making lots of pre-fab stuff.

That's because I'm not arguing for making pre-fab stuff more powerful than custom stuff. I'm arguing for making them equally powerful. Which I believe, given the practical realities of pre-fabs, necessitates that pre-fabs not follow the custom rules strictly, and be more than just "example builds".

To not do so is to ignore massive amounts of history and precedent for "example builds".

Making lots of pre-fab stuff isn't good either. Then you end up with a bunch of trap options, and things that people want to play are likely to be among the options that aren't effective. Having a lousy "thief" isn't made up for by having a good "mystic slayer". They're not interchangeable.