D&D 5E D&D Next Blog: Beyond Class & Race

[Steely_Dan]

I agree that's a reasonable basis for deciding what will fit in the 5e PHB. (I'll be suprised if all the specialty wizard classes from the 2e PHB make it into the 5e core though. Perhaps only Illusionist might make the cut.)

Yes, as that was its own full-on separate class in 1st Ed, would be interesting to have an Illusionist class again (I thought it might have been a Shadow Controller in 4th Ed or what have you).

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Don't know about the original BECMI bits, since I never got more than Basic and Expert that way. But the RC compilation had an optional skill system that happened to bolt right on to the regular system just fine, if you wanted that sort of thing. I reread RC recently, and was struck by how many of the optional skills have appeared in 2E and later as skills, proficiences, abilities, etc. The more things change, the more they remain the same.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

What kind of Backgrounds?

It looks like the 5e Backgrounds we've seen so far are pretty generic and abstract (Commoner, Apprentice, Noble). They remind me of 0-level characters from the 1e Greyhawk Adventures book.

Wasn't the term "Background" used in 3e Forgotten Realms to cover the cultural homeland of each player? This was more specific and flavorful.

And "Background" was also used in WotC's Wheel of Time d20 game as the equivalent of "race" in D&D, to distinguish the various PC human cultures since there was only one non-human PC option in that game.

Will 5e Backgrounds fill all these roles?



If so, then I'd like to see 20 archetypal human cultural Backgrounds, with a brief synonymy for the various D&D Worlds which employ real world cultural features (Toril, Abeir, Oerth, Aerth, Ravenloft, Mystara, and Birthright's Aebrynis). This would cover nearly all the Real World cultural flavors featured in those Campaign Settings:

• Northman (quasi-Viking; Uthgardt Barbarians of Toril; Ice, Snow, and Frost Barbarians of Oerth; Antalians of Mystara; Rjurik of Aebrynis; also Ice Barbarians of Krynn)
• Valesman (quasi-Medieval English; Dalelands and Cormyr of Toril; Tharquish Empire in Oerth; Darokin of Mystara; Anuire of Aebrynis)
• Hillman (quasi-Celtic; the Ffolk of Toril, Old Faith Oeridians of Oerth; Thratian Barbarians of Mystara)
• Isenman (quasi-Medieval German + Dutch; Hattias and Heldannic Knights of Mystara, Brechtur of Aebrynis)
• Sylairois (quasi-Medieval French; Nouvelle Averoigne and Renardie in Mystara)
• Kerendano (quasi-Medieval Italian + Spanish; Amn and Chondath in Toril, Caurenze, Espan Baronies in Mystara; the "generic core" name is from Kerendas, which is the origin of both the Italian and Spanish cultures in Mystara)
• Hordesman (quasi-Mongol; Tuigans of Toril; Tiger Nomads of Oerth; Ethengarians of Mystara)
• Emirati (quasi-Arab; Zakharans and Calishites of Toril, Bakluni of Oerth, Amber Wastes of Ravenloft, Alasyians of Mystara; Khinasi of Birthright)
• Eastlander (quasi-Russian/Slavic; Rashemen of Toril, Stonefist Barbarians of Oerth, Traladarans of Mystara, Vosgaard of Aebrynis)
• Nubian (quasi-African; Chult and Katashaka of Toril, Touv of Oerth, Tanagoro of Mystara)
• Rover (quasi-Native American; Anchorome natives of Toril or Abeir, Arapahi of Oerth; Atruaghin Clans of Mystara; also Plains Barbarians of Krynn)
• Anawakian (quasi-Mesoamerican; Mazticans of Abeir, Olmans of Oerth, Azcans of Mystara)
• Dreamtimer (quasi-Aboriginal; Osse of Toril, Wallarans of Mystara)
• Zindian (quasi-South Asian; Utter East of Toril, Zindia of Oerth, Sind of Mystara, Sri Ravji in Ravenloft)
• Cathayan (quasi-Chinese; Shou Lung and T'u Lung of Toril; Sufang of Oerth; I'Cath of Ravenloft, Ochalean of Mystara)
• Nippon-jin (quasi-Japanese; Wa and Kozakura of Toril, Nippon of Oerth; Myoshima of Mystara)
• Thessalian (quasi-Greek: Chessenta of Toril; Milenians of Mystara)
• Khemite (quasi-Egyptian; Mulhorand of Toril, Erypt of Oerth, Aegypt/Khemit of Aerth, Thothia and Nithia of Mystara)
• Nesian (quasi-Pacific Islander; Makai of Mystara)
• Untherite (quasi-Mesopotamian; Unther of Toril, Ishtarland of Oerth, Nimmur of Mystara)

There are precedents: various Real World cultures were mentioned in the class descriptions of the 2e PHB. And these cultures were featured in the pantheons of 1e Deities & Demigods and 2e Legends & Lore.

These Backgrounds also form the cultural framework for other fantasy IPs: JRRT's Middle-earth, REH's Hyborian Age, Theah of the 7th Sea, and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

As shown above, the names would either be "genericized" or would use an actual name from Oerth (or one of the other D&D Worlds) as the default.

These would be real, flavorful Backgrounds that players could get a handle on. If the Backgrounds are supposed to be open to all races, then "-man" could be replaced with "-folk": "Northfolk", "Hillfolk", "Hordesfolk", etc.

From this Real World-inspired base, many more Backgrounds--including "mixed" or invented fantasy cultures--could be featured in 5e Campaign Setting books.

This is what I'd like to see for Backgrounds in D&D Next.

 

[Minigiant]

I just had a thought...

Perhaps the "benefit" of choosing base themes over custom themes, is that base themes don't have to meet prerequistes. Like the 3.5 Ranger's combat styles. 18 Str "archery" rangers with two handed weapons.

A fighter with 11 DEX can pick the sharpshooter theme and get far shot. So if the dice screw you over on ability rolls, YOU CAN STILL MAKE YOUR ARCHER!

 

[KidSnide]

What I really like about this blog post is the idea that picking a background and a theme are choices that matter to almost every player. The problem with skills and feats is that they can be too fiddly -- they matter, but only if you care about the fiddly bits of the game system.

A background and a theme are big ideas. Even if you don't care all that much about the mechanical details, they are significant aspects of your character and players who don't want to sweat the details can gain the benefit of customization without having to parse the subtle distinctions between different feat choices. ("But I want a character that's tough! Why shouldn't I take toughness?")

The point raised up thread about complexity is also a good point. Background and theme should be additional opportunities for players to select less mechanically complicated characters.

-KS

 

[YRUSirius]

Anyone else feeling the strong mechanical/game design influence from Chris Pramas' Dragon Age Pen & Paper RPG?

Themes (slayer, knight, archer, two weapon) = combat style talents (two handed, sword and board, two weapon, archery)? Quasi fixed progression for classes coming in packages, but still individually customizable?

I like it. Kudos to you, Mr. Pramas.

-YRUSirius

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Questions I have:

1) Can a character take mulitple Themes? Why can't I "multi-theme"? To become, say a:

Fighter (Slayer/Thief)
or a multiclass Fighter (Slayer)/Rogue (Thief)

2) If not, then can a character switch out their Theme entirely later on?

3) Assuming there will be Multiclassing in 5e, won't Themes tie a character into a certain concept just like Race?

4) Why isn't taking on a Theme more flexible, like taking a level in Class? Otherwise, it seems too controlling.

5) If Theme is just a feat tree, then why can't a character "collect" multiple Themes, and even be "working on" multiple Themes at the same time, by choosing initial feats in various Themed feat trees?

6) From a typographic perspective, how will all this (Race, Background, Class, Theme) be written in character stat blocks?

7) How is all this written in 4e stat blocks?

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just had a thought...

Perhaps the "benefit" of choosing base themes over custom themes, is that base themes don't have to meet prerequistes. Like the 3.5 Ranger's combat styles. 18 Str "archery" rangers with two handed weapons.

A fighter with 11 DEX can pick the sharpshooter theme and get far shot. So if the dice screw you over on ability rolls, YOU CAN STILL MAKE YOUR ARCHER!

This could be a great way to make them useful.

 

[YRUSirius]

Questions I have:

1) Can a character take mulitple Themes? Why can't I "multi-theme"? To become, say a:

Fighter (Slayer/Thief)
or a multiclass Fighter (Slayer)/Rogue (Thief)

I don't know exactly what Themes are like in the current iteration of D&D 5E, but from what I read from the blog and how this compares to what I know from the Dragon Age Pen & Paper RPG, I'll try to give an answer.

You would't chose multiple Themes per se. You would chose _feats_ from different Themes. If Themes are like feat trees, you could select to be a mix between a slayer and a sharpshooter, or between and a knight and a slayer because you took feats from both themes. Beginners would just chose a theme and would have a fixed feat progression through the levels and would not need to chose feats. An advanced player would be able to just adjust his 'fixed' feat progression as he wants to. It would be even possible that a beginning player would be able to change feats from his 'fixed' feat progression from a theme to his likings as well. So themes might be 'class feat' suggestions on specific levels. But nothing more than 'suggestions' for beginners.

-YRUSirius

 

[Minigiant]

Questions I have:

1) Can a character take mulitple Themes? Why can't I "multi-theme"? To become, say a:

Fighter (Slayer/Thief)
or a multiclass Fighter (Slayer)/Rogue (Thief)

2) If not, then can a character switch out their Theme entirely later on?

3) Assuming there will be Multiclassing in 5e, won't Themes tie a character into a certain concept just like Race?

4) Why isn't taking on a Theme more flexible, like taking a level in Class? Otherwise, it seems too controlling.

5) If Theme is just a feat tree, then why can't a character "collect" multiple Themes, and even be "working on" multiple Themes at the same time, by choosing initial feats in various Themed feat trees?

To me, the themes sound a lot like feat trees. Players can choose between base themes or customize their own theme.

For example, the Sharpshooter theme might be 3 feats: Twin Shot (Shoot at two targets) at level 1, then Far shot (Shoot farther) at level X, then Precise Shot (Ignore a bunch of penalties) at level Y.

A player who wants to play an archer can probably either choose the Sharpshooter theme or make their own theme using the feats of the Sharpshooter theme.

Whether you can switch between the core and custom themes once the character is created, I don't know.

My guess is one core or custom theme is the default. Multiple themes would be a house rule through the DM and players.