D&D 5E D&D Next Design Goals (Article)

[Incenjucar]

Sure, if you think DM fiat is the term for every thing a DM does. Sure.

But, in most cases, DM Fiat is a pejorative term for when DMs make unfounded, baseless decisions.

That's not what a DM does. And, it's sad that you think that. ::shrug::

DM Fiat is a proper term that is used a pejorative because some feel that it is overused.

It's sad that you can't use it and instead have to resort to long-winded paragraphs.

Hey Incenjucar, how do you determine whether someone is close enough to make a Perception check to hear a noise?

I look at the map.

 

[P1NBACK]

But it also has an effect of being an on/off switch. The example of the chandelier is a good one. There is no way in the system you are playing to improve one's jumping ability or the acrobatics of swinging on a chandelier. You are left as DM to say either yes or no. There's nothing wrong with that style of play. I enjoyed it for years and many people still do. But other people enjoy being able to devote character training resources to be better at certain things they are interested in. To each their own.

How do you resolve the chandelier in say, 4E? An Acrobatics or Athletics check right? But... You're setting the DC too right? How do you arrive at that DC? Is it an easy task? A hard task?

In my opinion, the DM is always making these judgments. Adding in a "roll" doesn't remove those judgments.

And, I couldn't stand a game without that aspect of play, where we're working together to define the fiction and establish details that matter in the world.

As you said, to each their own.

 

[P1NBACK]

I look at the map.

What system are you using? 4E? What is the map telling you? You're making no judgment calls right? So, what does the map tell you about the Perception check.

I mean, there's a hearing radius for an elf in 4E, right? What is that? 30'? 60'? 90'? I mean, squares. 6 squares?

 

[Incenjucar]

DM fiat is always available, but you shouldn't HAVE to rely on it. Many players, including myself, like to have as much of an objective, rather than subjective game to work with, and prefer for DM fiat to only be used as minimally as possible. It's not dissimilar to why some people prefer to add more random factors into the game - it reduces the feel of bias in the game.

 

[Incenjucar]

What system are you using? 4E? What is the map telling you? You're making no judgment calls right? So, what does the map tell you about the Perception check.

I mean, there's a hearing radius for an elf in 4E, right? What is that? 30'? 60'? 90'? I mean, squares. 6 squares?

LISTEN
Noise Perception DC
Battle 0
Normal conversation Easy
Whispers Hard
Through a door +5
Through a wall +10
More than 10 squares away +2

 

[P1NBACK]

DM fiat is always available, but you shouldn't HAVE to rely on it. Many players, including myself, like to have as much of an objective, rather than subjective game to work with, and prefer for DM fiat to only be used as minimally as possible. It's not dissimilar to why some people prefer to add more random factors into the game - it reduces the feel of bias in the game.

So, you're saying you use "DM's Fiat". Got it.

 

[Incenjucar]

Absolutely. Every DM has to use DM fiat at some point. Designing a map is DM fiat.

Some prefer to minimize that as much as possible. I am among them.

 

[P1NBACK]

LISTEN
Noise Perception DC
Battle 0
Normal conversation Easy
Whispers Hard
Through a door +5
Through a wall +10
More than 10 squares away +2

I didn't ask what DCs you used. I asked when you called for a check.

How far is too far? 20 squares? 100 squares? So, my elf stops hearing when?

But, if we're on DCs, what if I'm 100 squares but shouting? What if it's a stern whisper (i.e. "stage whisper")? What if it's normal conversation through a waterfall? How are you deciding these things?

 

[P1NBACK]

Absolutely. Every DM has to use DM fiat at some point. Designing a map is DM fiat.

Some prefer to minimize that as much as possible. I am among them.

Yup. That's my point. Judgment calls are intrinsic to the game. And for me, rolling for mundane is just pointless. And, that includes swinging on a chandelier. Does it make sense that you could? Then, yes, you can.

I'm calling for rolls when there is an actual conflict. Not when I'm trying to figure out whether someone can see something, jump on something, walk down a hallway, hold their arm up for long durations while carrying a torch, etc.

 

[Incenjucar]

PCs have what I like to call Passive Perception. If the DC is beyond what they can hear, they can't hear it without doing a check. If they do a check, they can try to hear it.

If there are special circumstances, then I'll fiat in some modifiers to make up for the gaps in the game.

If you think you're catching me in some kind of trap, you're extremely confused about this conversation. DM fiat is not a dirty word, it is just not the ideal resolution mechanic for many people.