Teflon Billy
Explorer
Snoweel said:
Nice to see you back man
email me at jeff underscore ranger at yahoo.com.
Hope the army is treating you well.
D&D Political Systems
- Thread starter Snoweel
- Start date
Nice to see you back man
email me at jeff underscore ranger at yahoo.com.
Hope the army is treating you well.
Snoweel said:
Agamemnon- 10th-level Fighter or thereabouts
Achilles- 20th-level Demigod Fighter
When they have a disagreement, Achilles doesn't beat down Agamemnon. He just goes off and sulks.
On a less serious note, look at the Azure Kingdom in Order of the Stick. Lord Shojo has specifically stated that he is a 14th-level Aristocrat. There are Clerics in the city of at least 17th level (they cast Gate), and probably other classes of similar level. Yet Shojo stays in charge.
The reason:
For each high-level character who wants to seize power, there are at least 10 others who don't want him to, and are probably loyal to the low-level monarch. Thus, the high-level characters keep each other in check. Sure, they will have more power than others, with big spells and retainers bordering on a small private army, but they will not actually rule.
If there's only one high-powered character, things are naturally different. For an example of that, you need only look at what happens in Wheel of Time when Rand Al'Thor arrives in Tear. The High Lords (probably low-level aristocrats) immediately bow down to him.
Someone
Adventurer
It´s obviously possible for a powerful individual to teleport into the throne room, kill the guards in twelve seconds, assesinate the royal family, and coerce thr court into obeying him. But we all know what happens then: a baby is miraculously rescued from the castle and given to a peasant family in adoption, and grows into a honorable and healthy, if somewhat naïve, man. He then learns about his past (an event frequently involving an old man, family heirloom or birthmark), learns the arts of war and starts a quest to get his throne back.
So, seizing the throne by force is like putting a death sentence on you, only delayed 18 years. That´s why adventurers stay away from thrones.
So, seizing the throne by force is like putting a death sentence on you, only delayed 18 years. That´s why adventurers stay away from thrones.
Snoweel said:
Two things I think,
(1) Personal charisma can sway millions and build a following of loyal retainers that make sure your orders are carried out, really it's about who can get the army to follow them for whatever reason (and historically a popular general often is the one); and
(2) Class based systems are notoriously bad in my experience (or IMHO) with providing a template to provde versimilitude to the "real-world" unless you included a "manager/ruler" class with skill/feats/talents...etc. geared to persuading people, administration, etc. of course where do you stop adding classes?
D&D adds the complication of magic, where one wizard might defeat an army. Some mention a balance of power as what keeps a weakiling on the throne. Maybe so, but human nature being what it is I'd imagine the powerful would form an open or secret oligarchy that really rules behind the scenes.
Kragar00
First Post
Snoweel said:
Have you heard of Hitler, Saddam Hussien, or even Castro? Any dictator can do whatever he wants... he just has to make sure that his army is better than anyone elses...
Snoweel said:
For this reason I think that people would be more inclined to follow lower level people.... What happens if the hereditary title has been decreed by a god? All of a sudden, messing with him means you're messing with a god.... The same thing happens with an organized religion..... If a priesthood puts you in power, there's probably a pretty good reason for it and the common folk will rarely revolt...
However, there is still the idea of charisma, wisdom, and intelligence.... imagine a 17th level battle tank who siezes control of a nation... sure, he can bully anyone into doing what he wants, but he knows nothing about ruling a country.... People start embezzling, fleeing in fear, or doing a good lot of nothing and the battle tank never knows....
Instead, you have a 4th level aristrcroat with +20 in diplomacy (due to several synergies, skill emphasis, and other feats) and who wouldn't follow him? Couple that with a little bit of knowledge of tactics and, while he can't fight to save his life, if he tells other people where to go and what to do, he can work wonders.... That in itself inspires a little respect.... and once you get the respect of a couple of high level characters, you suddenly gain the respect of more....
Leadership is as much about controling people as it is making the right kind of friends.... If you make bad decisions, then you don't stay in power long... On the other hand, the right friends can really boost your career...
Sure, you may get some high level upstart who wants to stage a coup, but then he has to get through all your body guards and have his own army....
And just for the point, I would never let my bodyguard go away on adventures.... I may recruit from adventurers, but the job wouldn't allow for that sort of work on the weekends... That's what other adventurers, mercenaries, and military strike teams are for...
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I definitely agree with Kragar above. A 4th level aristocrat who has been raised in a kingdom's political courts, who knows how to lean on other nobility to gain aid for his or her cause, who has connections to certain powerful people in other allied kingdoms, etc and pretty soon you have a very effective ruler.
Snoweel said:
Well, why else have him as leader, if it isn't that he can force you to take him? Out of respect for the strength?
Think, for a moment, about Star Trek. Folks cry to the skies that it is unrealistic to have your most valuable person (the Captain) going on away missions - you don't put your leader out in risky positions. Same logic should apply here - if the mightiest are the leaders, then the country either loses their leaders regularly, or they lose the services of their mightiest people.
Similarly, note that Arthur himself was not the greatest of the Round Table knights. And Merlin wasn't king.
Plus, the things that make you a mighty warrior or wizard of cleric do not make you the best leader - they don't have much in the way of social skills, which are paramount for a leader.
Neither here nor there, because, as you noted, others of similar power can and will stop them. Heck, groups of people of lesser power can and will stop them.
I will defer to a guy who has a gun. For the moment, while he's in my presence. That does not mean that I think he's a good leader. It only means that I don't want to be shot, or I need someone shot. When I need an ecomonic plan instead of physical force, the gun becomes much less relevant. If you don't have the skills to run a country, you won't hold the position long. And a high BAB doesn't give you those skills.
It can, if you want it to. But it doesn't have to. It isn't like religion and tradition are based on facts.
The people in the fictional world don't know from "character levels". Those are an out-of-game mechanic. In general, the fictional people don't have their levels stamped on their foreheads, and you don't see power until it is applied.
The people in the fictional world don't know from "character levels". Those are an out-of-game mechanic. In general, the fictional people don't have their levels stamped on their foreheads. They have some tangibles, but they are only seen when this prospective leader takes a risk.
Your level of personal freedom is directly tied to your system of governance. A society that keeps around a bunch of hihg-level paladins as police (and they're lawful, so they'll stick to their jobs as police rather than take command themselves) to protect the weak can have lots of freedom, too. There are many possible systems.
If the gods walk amongst men, by your logic the gods should be running things, not powerful characters
Umbran said:
.... but no mid-level nobody was going to take him down, either.
The ruler in a D&D world certainly doesn't have to be the highest-level guy around. He does have to have the capability to avoid getting pushed around by the highest-level guy around who's willing to try.
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