D&D possible cause in Murder case again.

[Banshee16]

Yeah, especially given how common knives are on the streets. Now, if he'd killed them with a crossbow or ball-and-chain--you know, something that (1) isn't generally found in the hands of people who have no fantasy interests and (2) is downright archaic--well, then maybe we'd have some sort of connection...to Buffy: the Vampire Slayer.

This is what I'm getting at.

Heck, in my own city, just 2-3 weeks ago, some guy stabbed his mother, father, and sister to death. Obviously, something snapped in his head. But does it mean there's a connection with D&D? Who knows? Who knows if he even knows what the game is? But given the crime just happened, the police here aren't making any statements about possible causes. Nobody knows yet. It's going to take weeks for him to be able to work with a court appointed psychologist, while in the meantime the police continue their investigations.

That's a big reason why the originally quoted article seems so spurious. Now, if he started shouting that he killed them because of D&D, or he had some form of shrine of D&D books set up in his bedroom, with little pictures of people getting killed or something, and the police found this during the arrest? Well, maybe. Who knows? But I suspect that the investigation isn't nearly that far along, and that insufficient evidence is available to make any kind of statement as to cause.

Banshee

 

[Trainz]

Just to be clear here......and possibly my response was not....but it was intended at the quoted story...not at your own comments.

I find the entire article a tad flaky

Banshee

Sure. No problem.

Frankly, I find this whole thing close to a non-issue. My hobby is completely unaffected by this story.

Now, there are some that take offense when the hobby is but slightly associated with a heinous crime. Personally, it makes me smirk when it happens, and I move on. Long gone are the days of MADD (Mothers Against D&D) and the castration of demons and devils (Tanar'ri & Baatezu).

Of course from time to time you will have a news outlet that will stupidly associate D&D with bad things, but you know what, it's their right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Gamers aren't exempt from having prejudice toward some subjects (whatever they may be).

And you know what, there ARE dangers with RPG's. When I was a teen in college, I flunked a whole year because of my obsession with D&D. True story. I had a blast though. I don't regret it at all. But hey, I grew up, and cut back on my gaming.

If I was a psycho with murder tendencies, I could very well have used D&D to fantasize about my evil instincts, and one day commited the unspeakable. If I didn't have access to RPG's, something else would have been my medium with wich to do it. Wouldn't mean D&D is responsible, but it could very well be the canvas on which I would have explored my psychosis further. It's not impossible.

It is not an attack on D&D for an investigator to explore every detail of a crime. In fact, it's his responsibility.

But I'm just repeating myself now (as are half the posters in this thread)

 

[Darth K'Trava]

That wasn't funny in the least. That man murdered two sisters and a little 4-year old girl. You seek to make light of that? She was a member of my friends' larger social circle, had dated one of my friends in fact. There is nothing funny about it.

I seriously doubt he was being funny.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

I can't imagine the Care Bear defense at all - but if someone had been beaten to death with a Dungeon Master's Guide, you could bet you'd see the same old story all over again. The Care Bears haven't been the subject of 26 years of urban legends and media misrepresentation.

Which is totally unjustified, in my opinion. Those dang things creep me out.

- DocAwk

Worse than teletubbies?

Someone had the cajones to dress up as the purple one at Dragoncon one year and got "pummelled" by a group of angry Klingons.

 

[woodelf]

And you know what, there ARE dangers with RPG's. When I was a teen in college, I flunked a whole year because of my obsession with D&D. True story. I had a blast though. I don't regret it at all. But hey, I grew up, and cut back on my gaming.

And when my parents were in college, people regularly flunked out by playing bridge. I know two guys who sort missed most of their classes for two semesters running due to online computer games of one sort or another (lessee--woulda been more roguelike than MMORPG, at that time). It's the obsession, not the game, that matters. [and, yes, i know *you* know that. I'm just making a point.]

If I was a psycho with murder tendencies, I could very well have used D&D to fantasize about my evil instincts, and one day commited the unspeakable. If I didn't have access to RPG's, something else would have been my medium with wich to do it. Wouldn't mean D&D is responsible, but it could very well be the canvas on which I would have explored my psychosis further. It's not impossible.

And that's the part of the DA's follow-up quote that bugs me: he still is referring to cause and effect bass ackwards. That is, D&D doesn't cause a blurring of reality, a blurring of reality (due to underlying psychosis) causes the person to latch onto D&D. Or, more often, religion.

 

[woodelf]

I'm a bit confused here. To me it sounds like the journalist may have not asked the right question to get the possible connection the DA was thinking of, thus making the DA sound like an idiot, or on the other hand the DA actually is an idiot and the journalist faithfully reported his comments ... I don't really understand why this is worrying. I mean, 'there were lots of stab wounds, and D&D is all about pointy things'??

Is this actually going to find an audience who go, 'yeah, a stabbing, must have been D&D'? 'Sane criminals always use guns?' Won't people go 'yeah right, wonder if he watched any cooking shows', like some people on this thread have mentioned?

I have not run across the opinion before that D&D is about running around with edged weapons. Is that really common? I have heard the satanic thing once. Maybe we don't get that as much in Oz, or maybe just the kinds of people I know wouldn't be that freaked out by it.

Actually most people I know think D&D is a bit weird and a bit nerdy, but they don't seem to think there's anything dangerous about it....

Do people really think this news article will stoke hatred of D&D?

Honestly curious!

USians seem to be particularly good at being afraid, and at blaming others--whether those "others" are other people, other influences, or other causes.

If you want to see an excelent exploration of this, watch Farenheit 9/11. Ignore the stuff about Charlton Heston and KMart, and stick to the parts about analyzing cultural attitudes, and it's very insightful, i think. It also illustrates our tendency to (1) overlook obvious connections (2) in favor of any connection to "unusual" activities, (3) especially if this yields a "simple" explanation . For a society founded by outsiders and enshrining the right to be outspoken, we really don't like non-conformists. They give us the heebie-jeebies, apparently.

The worst part of this is that it makes it nearly impossible to actually discuss anything even vaguely fringe. So, frex, we're making ridiculously slow progress on the question of any possible correlation between TV violence and real violence because a lot of proponents of the link *do* tend to be fringe whackos who make no distinction between Wile E. Coyote and Cops and, so you get equally-dogmatic opponents pointing out the ridiculousness of the mare extreme claims, and those who take a moderate position are dismissed by both sides as being idiots for falling for the other side's BS.

As for the poor reporting and/or questionable analysis of the DA stoking D&D prejudice: yeah, probably, but only really in those who're already predispuosed toassume D&D, or even RPGs in general (for those that know the difference), are problematic, questionable, or evil. I don't expect this sort of story to sway those who know better, or even fence-sitters. It's too insubstantial to get the fence-sitters, and those who actually know anything about RPGs will recognize the BS for what it is. But it will likely get taken up by the wackos who already believe as further "evidence".

 

[woodelf]

Why does the number of blades concern you? Not an attack, just curious. Maybe he collects knives and swords. I collect knives and swords and, in total, have about 100 -- more knives than swords. I know lots of collectors who have the same number or more. Some play D&D; most don't. In fact, most probably haven't even heard of D&D.

Actually, a collection of knives or guns worries me a bit, but only once there's some other reason to get suspicious. And i think it more than a bit bizarre that, in our society, we get worried about someone with an enjoyment of imagination, but not about someone with an enjoyment of collecting and/or using deadly weapons. [And, yes, i have more knives than i actually can justify needing, by any reasonable stretch.]

 

[woodelf]

That's a big reason why the originally quoted article seems so spurious. Now, if he started shouting that he killed them because of D&D, or he had some form of shrine of D&D books set up in his bedroom, with little pictures of people getting killed or something, and the police found this during the arrest? Well, maybe. Who knows? But I suspect that the investigation isn't nearly that far along, and that insufficient evidence is available to make any kind of statement as to cause.

Banshee

And on the flip side, recently a guy somewhere near here killed his whole family and then himself. And he left a note saying [i paraphrase] "I did this because i needed to save my family, and bring us all closer to God." They couldn't find any money troubles, or family troubles, or criminal involvement, and the official word from the sherrif was "we don't know why he did this, but we're looking into it." I mean, we've got a perp telling the world why he committed his crime, and it's a plausible explanation [that is, that he believes that, at least], and yet they automatically start looking for something else. Couldn't possibly admit that religion, even religion filtered through a psycho's perceptions, could be the cause of such stuff.

Reminds me of the editorial in Dragon, years ago, where the guy pointed out that in his many years as a military base psychologist, a bastion of RPing, he hadn't seen a single person whose psychosis fixated on fantasy worlds, and tons whose psychoses fixated on religion--most of them, in fact.