D&D 5E D&D Power Sources ≈ Magic The Gathering Colors

[Staffan]

I think the best place for insight into Magic color philosophy is probably Ravnica and its guilds. That shows you a how the colors combine in various ways, and I think that tells us more about the colors than looking at them in isolation.

Azorius Senate – White/Blue. The epitome of order and the codification of law, both as a concept in service to order and as a field of study and knowledge.
House Dimir – Blue/Black. An organization of spies that trade in secret knowledge, and which employs psychic magic to literally rip secrets from your head and feed on them.
Cult of Rakdos – Black/Red. A combination of a religion and a circus, founded on the idea that in the face of a decaying world hedonistic pleasure is the only thing that makes sense.
Gruul Clans – Red/Green. A loose collection of clans who wish to see the world restored to its primal state.
Selesnya Conclave – Green/White. Hippies seeking communion with the World Soul, and desiring a world of harmony between their ordered version of nature and all its inhabitants.
Boros Legion – Red/White. Religious zealots seeking to forge a just society and root out corruption and lawlessness.
Orzhov Syndicate – White/Black. An organization combining the traits of the Mafia and a church, where people fall into debt and need to spend their afterlives in service to the syndicate.
Golgari Swarm – Black/Green. The circle of life, or perhaps of death. Life growing from that which is dead and rotting.
Simic Combine – Green/Blue. Biological monstrosities, seeking to combine and alter life forms into strange and wondrous hybrids.
Izzet League – Blue/Red. The lust for experimentation, crafting ever more dangerous tools and forcing elements into new shapes.

If I were to boil these down into a single trait each, they would be:
White: Order
Blue: Knowledge
Black: Death (this is the one that's most iffy)
Red: Passion
Green: Life

So Green + White becomes a cult dedicated to things living in harmony, Green + Black becomes the cycle of life and death, and White + Black becomes a Church using the forces of order to enforce service beyond death.

These things really don't match very well with D&D classes at all. I think Ravnica had the right tack on it, where you had multiple classes in each guild, just seen through that guild's lens.

 

[Yaarel]

I think the best place for insight into Magic color philosophy is probably Ravnica and its guilds.

Solid approach, looking at D&D Ravnica to see how designers are thinking about the MTG translation.

White: Order
Blue: Knowledge
Black: Death (this is the one that's most iffy)
Red: Passion
Green: Life

As you note, these themes translate less well into D&D mechanics.

• Death and Life are opposing themes.
• Passion and Knowledge are maybe opposites, maybe feeling-emotion versus thinking-reason?
• Then Order, maybe the Lawful alignment, seems odd.

The themes themselves are inconsistent, making the assignment of D&D mechanics ambiguous.

Still the Ravnica helps to consider.



I look at Strixhaven in a new way too. It is clear that Black is more than undead and fiend. It also includes natural death (Witherbloom) and symbolic death as a literary motif (Silverquill).

White - Divine (Celestial)/Martial
Blue - Arcane/Psionic
Black - Arcane (Necromancy)/Divine (Fiendish)
Red - Arcane (Evocation)/Martial
Green - Primal

This is helpful narrowing down of themes.

It seems that the "MTG Wizard" is unable to cast Fireball. Maybe narrow down the Blue Arcane with parenthetical specifics, for exactly which things Blue can do.

 

[Yaarel]

Martial is a seventh power source. I view the Martial power source as participating in every power source. For example.

Martial power source
• Divine (divination and teleportation): Knowledge skills (research and intuition), Perception (senses)
• Psionic (enchantment and illusion): Persuasion, Performance
• Shadow (death, undead and fiend): Combat training
• Elemental (earth-fire and air-water): Crafting tools, Survival (weather and terrain)
• Primal (healing and shapeshifting): Athletics (the power of a natural body), Medicine, Nature

So really the Martial power source is the nonmagical aspect of every magical power source.

 

[Yaarel]

I am starting to glance thru Common White cards. No doubt the following lists will be updated.

Much of White flavors as the divine power source (divination, fate, bless, time) plus the ethereal power source (ether, force, fly, light).

White
• +N/+N, Exalted ≈ divine (divination, fate, bless)
• Defend, Block, Protection, Prevent Damage, Life Link ≈ divine (divination, fate), or ethereal (force construct)
• Stasis ≈ divine (time)
• Vigilance ≈ divine (divination)
• First Strike ≈ divine (divination)
• Flavors: Cleric, Mystic, White Wizard, Holy, Honor, Morale, Heroism ≈ divine (divination, fate, bless)

• Spirit ≈ ethereal (ether, fly)
• Flying, Walk ≈ ethereal (force, fly, telekinesis, magical wings, mobility), or martial (natural wings, athletics)
• Destroy ≈ ethereal (force, disintegrate, magical energy)
• Flavor: Light ≈ ethereal (light)

• group tactics, soldier, wolf, noble ≈ martial (group tactics), possibly divine (divination, sense allies, alignment Lawful)


Note
• Gain Life ≈ primal (nature, healing)

"Gain Life" is both White and Green; I prioritize Green.

Most of White "healing" is actually Prevent Damage, which is not the same thing as actual healing. Perhaps White is more about divinating to evade or deflect a fateful lethal hit.

 

[Arnie_Wan_Kenobi]

On a serious note:
White - Divine (Celestial)/Martial
Blue - Arcane/Psionic
Black - Arcane (Necromancy)/Divine (Fiendish)
Red - Arcane (Evocation)/Martial
Green - Primal

I am in basically complete agreement, but (drawing from the 4E power sources) add I'd overlap Primal with Red and add Shadow to Black (and MAYBE Green). I wonder, would damage types would be the best division? E.G.: acid (Green, Black), bludgeoning (n/a), cold (Blue, White), fire (Red, White?), force (Blue), lightning (Red), necrotic (Black), piercing (n/a), poison (Green), psychic (Blue), radiant (White), slashing n/a), and thunder (Red).

 

[Yaarel]

I wonder, would damage types would be the best division? E.G.: acid (Green, Black), bludgeoning (n/a), cold (Blue, White), fire (Red, White?), force (Blue), lightning (Red), necrotic (Black), piercing (n/a), poison (Green), psychic (Blue), radiant (White), slashing n/a), and thunder (Red).

Damage Types: Power Source

• Cold (Blue): elemental (air-water, weather)
• Fire (Red): elemental (fire)
• Radiant (Red): elemental (fire, plasma, sun), ethereal (light)
• Lightning (Red, Blue): elemental (fire, plasma) (air-water, weather)
• Thunder (Blue, Red): elemental (air-water, weather) (fire, explosion)
• Bludgeon, Slash, Pierce (Colorless): elemental (earth, metal), martial (tool, weapon), primal (shapeshift, horn, claw)
• Acid (Red): elemental (fire burn, earth acidic chemicals, water solvent)

• Poison (Green): primal (shapeshift, plant, beast), elemental (earth toxic chemicals, water solvent)
• Necrotic (Black): shadow (death)

• Psychic (Blue): psionic (mind)
• Force (Colorless): ethereal (ether, force)

 

[Yaarel]

WHITE
• ethereal (ether, spirit, light)
• ethereal (force, fly, magic wings)
• ethereal (force, block)
• ethereal (force, destroy)
• ethereal (ether, change power source)
• divine (divination, fate, bless, prevent damage)
• divine (astral, angel)
• divine (astral, alignment, Lawful)
• primal (heal, gain life)
• martial (group tactics, soldiers)

Like the D&D arcane Wizard, the Blue is all over the place doing anything.

BLUE
• elemental (air-water, weather, cold)
• ethereal (force, telekinesis, fly, magic wings, mobility: ≈ air-water)
• ethereal (force, destroy)
• ethereal (magic energy, dispel, counterspell)
• ethereal (ether, change power source)
• primal (shapechange, beast, aquatic, aerial)
• psionic (mind, telepathy, charm, illusion)
• psionic (mind, soul)
• shadow (undead)
• divine (divination, knowledge, lore)
• divine (divination, fate, "sorcery")
• divine (divination, scry)
• divine (divination, fate, curse)
• divine (teleportation, time)

 

[Yaarel]

From an other thread

Dina (Witherbloom): MTG Class: Druid/WizKids Minis Class: Druid
Killian (Silverquill): MTG Class: Warlock/Wizkids Minis Class: Wizard
Quintoruis (Lorehold): MTG class: Cleric/WizKids Minis Class: Artificer
Rootha (Prismari): MTG Class: Shaman/WizKids Minis Class: Bard
Zimone (Quandrix): MTG Class: Wizard/WizKids Minis Class: Wizard

MTG ≈ D&D (WizKids Minis Classes)

Warlock (White-Black) ≈ Wizard
Wizard (Blue-Green) ≈ Wizard
Cleric (White-Red) ≈ Artificer
Shaman (Blue-Red) ≈ Bard
Druid (Black-Green) ≈ Druid



MTG ≈ D&D (Strixhaven Classes)

Relatedly, shared archetypes according to D&D Strixhaven setting:

White-Red (Lorehold) ≈ Bard, Warlock, or Wizard
Blue-Red (Prismari) ≈ Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard
Blue-Green (Quandrix) ≈ Sorcerer or Wizard
White-Black (Silverquill) ≈ Bard, Warlock, or Wizard
Black-Green (Witherbloom) ≈ Druid or Warlock



It seems the MTG-to-D&D conversion officially eliminates the Cleric class. But this seems unnecessary, because a cosmic force Cleric makes plenty of sense. Magic itself is the sacred cosmic force.

I love the Bard class for any primal Shaman concept, but Bard features lack elemental magic, and would need an archetype. WizKids has it as Bard, but the Strixhaven setting appears to make it Druid.

It is unclear why WizKids would change the Warlock Killian Silverquill (White-Black) into a Wizard, when the Warlock class can use the Silverquill archetype. There is no problem with him being a Warlock.

 

[Arnie_Wan_Kenobi]

It seems the MTG-to-D&D conversion officially eliminates the Cleric class. But this seems unnecessary, because a cosmic force Cleric makes plenty of sense. Magic itself is the sacred cosmic force.

I love the Bard class for any primal Shaman concept, but Bard features lack elemental magic, and would need an archetype. WizKids has it as Bard, but the Strixhaven setting appears to make it Druid.

It is unclear why WizKids would change the Warlock Killian Silverquill (White-Black) into a Wizard, when the Warlock class can use the Silverquill archetype. There is no problem with him being a Warlock.

Not to repeat myself, but since the other thread has derailed...
I dig official rules on an elementalist Bard. Between Prismari and "privative" settings, there's a lot of room for this archetype. Anyone know if there's a 3PP version out there? Houseruling (at low levels at least) wouldn't be too difficult, either. (Of course, M:tG doesn't really have an "elementalist" class either, as you say, it seems to be Druid. But I would say it overlaps with the M:tG Shaman, as well.

I mean, we're making giant assumptions based on a few early announced mini sets and a playtest document, but right now it almost feels like Strixhaven is steering folks away from "Patron" classes (Cleric, Warlock, etc.)

 

[Yaarel]

Not to repeat myself, but since the other thread has derailed...
I dig official rules on an elementalist Bard. Between Prismari and "privative" settings, there's a lot of room for this archetype. Anyone know if there's a 3PP version out there? Houseruling (at low levels at least) wouldn't be too difficult, either. (Of course, M:tG doesn't really have an "elementalist" class either, as you say, it seems to be Druid. But I would say it overlaps with the M:tG Shaman, as well.

The classes for the WizKids minis seems to differ from the classes for the Strixhaven setting anouncment. For the minis, Prismari is a Bard − and an elemental Bard sounds kinda awesome, and helps actualize the artistic and dramatizing aspect of Prismari. However, for the Strixhaven setting, the Prismari archetype doesnt seem to be available for Bards − probably because the Bard lacks elemental features. I guess, WizKids was an earlier approach thinking broadly, and the setting a more recent approach thinking thru the details of the class features.

Perhaps there can be a compromise, where the Prismari archetype itself guarantees spells known, so that Bard can take it. Also, perhaps it can allow the character to have a favorite elemental damage type (earth-fire fire; or air-water thunder, lightning, or cold), to substitute the damage type of other known spells. Probably, these spells and modifications should only be for one of the four elements, and let the player picks which one.

I love how the Druid and the Bard differ from each other, as both are attuned to natural life, but the Druid plays with elements while the Bard plays with minds. But the concept of an artistic elementalist seems cool, and I am fine with a subclass archetype allowing the Bard to do it.

I mean, we're making giant assumptions based on a few early announced mini sets and a playtest document, but right now it almost feels like Strixhaven is steering folks away from "Patron" classes (Cleric, Warlock, etc.)

Strixhaven setting has Warlocks, and perhaps this was a reconsideration of an earlier assumption to remove them. However both agree there is no Cleric. This too deserves reconsideration. A Cleric whose cosmic force is magic, sounds like an awesome concept, and can make alot of sense for the Mage School feel.