D&D 5E D&D Races: Evolution, Fantasy Stereotypes & Escapism

[Cadence]

In a game? At their own table that impacts nobody else?

Absolutely.

I was thinking for everything, game or not, in this age of 24 hour news stations and social media.

 

[Malmuria]

Except that there, it was a savage LAND.

Yes, it reminds me of the 19th century European categorization of Africa as "The Dark Continent." The idea that Africa, particularly the congo, was "undiscovered" and "unexplored" (by Europeans). That it was mysterious, alluring and yet dangerous, and yes "savage" and "primitive" and in need of (European) civilization.

Early pulp literature took up and ran with these ideas, creating a fantastical version of Africa for rapt European readers. For example, in the novels of the extremely popular author, H Rider Haggard, whose stories told of lost worlds deep in the "heart" of Africa, underground and ruled over by tyrants and witches, but holding great and ancient treasure. Sound familiar?

Of course, as you probably know, this was accompanied by the real and quite horrific conquest of African territory by European powers, with Belgium and France taking the congo. Immortalized by Joseph Conrad's rapacious general Kurtz, who, in order to bring said "civilization" to the congo, thinks he must "exterminate the brutes!"

But surely these are old and old-fashioned ideas, right? Surely no 21st century person would still hold that African countries are "primitive" in the sense of not being contemporary and modern, or that African people are somehow immune to progress? Well, except here is French prime minister Nicolas Sarkozy in 2007:

“The tragedy of Africa is that the African man has never really entered history. The African peasant has known only the eternal renewal of time via the endless repetition of the same actions and the same words. In this mentality, where everything always starts over again, there is no place for human adventure nor for any idea of progress” – Nicholas Sarkozy, the new French president in a speech to Africans in Dakar, Senegal, on 26 July 2007.

So, to bring this back around to Tomb of Annihilation and fantasy Africa in rpgs: it means that the use of terms like "primitive" and "savage" are not innocent, that the full meanings and connotations of those words point to a fairly recent and very disturbing history, one that continues to affect the fortunes of people around the world. It does not mean that fantasy Africa cannot be done correctly, or even that ToA or the pathfinder products are bad in this regard, but that exercising editorial discretion, which they should have done from the beginning with ToA, is prudent and helpful for anyone seeking to make an inclusive product.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Has versimilitude always been the important thing?

It didn't used to be the terrible argument secret ingredient it is today before around the introduction of 3.5 where IIRC, some designers used it to explain some changes.

Like Oppenheimer with the Bomb, they lived to see their creation become a scourge on the world.

 

[Umbran]

I was thinking for everything, game or not, in this age of 24 hour news stations and social media.

We are a gaming site. We talk about gaming, you know. The rest of... this (waving hands vaguely)... is not really the focus.

 

[Dire Bare]

Which is also a valid point. In fact, it would be prudent to remember that even the human characters in fantasy aren't real people.
"If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumber’d here
While these visions did appear."
-A Midsummer Night's Dream, Act 5, Scene 1

Neither is a valid point.

Elves and dwarves aren't different species from each other, or from humans. Certainly you can view them that way in your games, but that isn't where they come from. Each fantasy race is pulled from mythological tropes of "the other", stereotypes of other humans.

Elves and orcs are fantasy people, they aren't real, and neither is my human sorcerer/ranger character. But they are written by real humans, for other real humans to enjoy, and the use of concepts steeped in stereotyping and systemic racism is harmful.

But . . . . we're jumping on that same old merry-go-round again, so . . . .

Now, I think moving towards viewing elves, orcs, and the whole lot as more sci-fi alien species is actually a good way to go, as long as you work at clearing out the baggage. Something WotC and many other publishers are working on currently.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Well, no I suppose not. When has truth ever really mattered.

The truth is always relevant to some degree or other.

But brute physical facts are not the whole of what "the truth" is. If they were, a forum for discussing the conduct of a game whereby one conjures fictitious elves and bus-sized flying reptilian flamethowers would not exist, mostly because said game would not exist.

Some truths--indeed, a good number of the very important ones, I'd argue--both precede brute physical facts and will endure long after any particular set of brute physical facts has had its brute physicality ground to dust and entropy.

And so these three remain: Faith, Hope, and Love. And the greatest of these is Love.

 

[DarkMantle]

Now, I think moving towards viewing elves, orcs, and the whole lot as more sci-fi alien species is actually a good way to go, as long as you work at clearing out the baggage. Something WotC and many other publishers are working on currently.

This could potentially be interesting. What do elven trances do for elves, and what it means to live a 1000 years? Instead of We-like-trees-elves and We-like-stones-dwarves, I'd be curious to see what a "fantasy alien" species/culture could be like.

The thing I'm unclear on is, if does/could work, then why it hasn't been done by now? I'm not up-to-date on the latest fantasy novels, but I think of Asgardians from the MCU, or elves from The Witcher, and they're still just humans with cosmetic changes.

Then in RPGs specifically, are players able to roleplay an alien dragonborn, or is it still a human with a dragon head?

In my current Wild Beyond The Witchlight campaign, I like to play up the Feywild culture, pulling whatever there is in the adventure and in Domains of Delight. Honestly, it is hard and time consuming to learn and present, but the end result is that it feels like a separate plane with its own rules and its own culture that isn't found anywhere else. It doesn't feel like the Prime plane. That's the closest I've gotten to pushing the envelope on non-human experiences.

 

[Scribe]

And so these three remain: Faith, Hope, and Love. And the greatest of these is Love.

They are not true though, objectively.

 

[Faolyn]

Proof ? The errata on Tomb of Annihilation:

• Entertainer (p. 10). In the last sentence, cut the words "and exotic".
• Chultans (p. 12). In the last sentence of the third paragraph, delete the word "tribal".
• Introduction (p. 15). In the last sentence of first paragraph, delete the word "exotic".
• Introduction (p. 15). In the first sentence of the second paragraph, change the word "savage" to "terrifying".
• Garden (p. 28). In the first sentence, delete the word "exotic".
• Prisoners of the Yuan-ti (p. 118). In the last sentence of the first paragraph, change the word "tribes" to "homes".

So, obviously, some words are now banned. And it's not the first time, people on this site have already expressly told me that it was not proper to use words such as "primitive". And I'm not even speaking of "oriental".

Nobody has "banned" those words. WotC has chosen not to use them, and to use other words instead. There is a difference between banning a word and using a better world.

 

[Faolyn]

Is it worse/better to get paid to pretend to be a murderer or to do it for free?

More accurately, is it better to get paid to play a role that likely someone else has created, or better to play that role for fun, because you enjoy playing a murderer-y character, after you have put in effort to make it as murderer-y as you can?