D&D SHOULD NOT have a defined atmosphere/style *Semi Rant*

[Akrasia]

Because it's Monday?

Fair enough!

 

[Akrasia]

And then he took it back.

Whatever his motives in telling the faithful not to stray into heresy, he did it. Whether he was right or wrong to do so, he did it.

I think he was right when he wrote the books. I think his later claims in Dragon were wrong (but I guess I can see what motivated him at the time). FWIW, he now seems to hold his original position.

 

[Sundragon2012]

Allow me to quote Aldarc:

I highly agree. It is expected, and even balanced, so that characters have to become walking Christmas trees in order to survive.

This is correct.

There is a BIG difference between D&D having a lot of magical goodies and REQUIRING magical goodies in order to survive. I am writing a setting and working to make a moderate magic world and I have come to understand just how challenging that is because the game is created to make the DM run his game a certain way.

If you don't you run into hassles.

It doesn't matter if D&D 1 or 2 had a bit of a feel, and maybe the core books did have a certain feel but setting more often than not overwrote that as necessary. The SUPPOSITION of a certain style of play was not in the rules so much so that to attempt to DM with a different set of assumptions ie. less comic book, more Tolkien/Howard, would cause you any real consternation. I remember lifting whole chunks of rules out that I felt were done wrong and house ruling them to suit my DMing style.

D&D 3.X has installed into its firmware, the over the top, comic book fantasy that is assumed instead of making the assumption merely a philosophical point within the core books as it should have been.

Both 1e and 2e had serious flaws and limitations and honestly I think that character creation is a veritable straight jacket compared to the freedom allowed in 3.X but that isn't my point. My point is that no style of play should be forced onto the DM who is loyal enough to the game that he would rather work with the system then abandon it.

I remember that Gary Gygax once said that if people are playing D&D different than in the core books they weren't playing D&D. Well as a DM I thought to myself "piss off." Now its as if that philosophy is a part of the system making it harder for the DM to make it his own.


Chris

 

[Thanee]

Be mean and use EOM for the NPC's and never tell your players.. so when they encounter a mage who tosses off "Hartor's Binding Shadows" {a spell that creates solid bands of shadow substance, contricting and blinding the targets} they get amazed.

Or they think, hey, that's from the Book of Unlimited Spells, vol. 24, I'd thought about learning that spell, too.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

There is a BIG difference between D&D having a lot of magical goodies and REQUIRING magical goodies in order to survive. I am writing a setting and working to make a moderate magic world and I have come to understand just how challenging that is because the game is created to make the DM run his game a certain way.

It doesn't require all this magical items. But the DM has to realize that some monsters need certain weapons to defeat, or certain protections for the characters for the game to work. THis is true if the players have lots or little magical items. Sometimes certain classes are needed, and if the party doesn't have them either the Dm needs to alter it or make sure it won't ruin the game. Same is true for magical items. A Dm's job is not easy and it is not for everyone. I think a lot of problems actually come from DMs not realizing they either are not good enough or are not putting enough enough time and thought into the game.

 

[Mystery Man]

Let's see ... PCs encountering a Demon (Devil?) Lord and possessing, in the first place, two Vorpal blades and a two-handed holy sword? I bet they even had magical armor, too.

Earlier editions were just as filled with magical goodies and power-ups as the current edition.

A*fricking*men

 

[The Shaman]

Did I fall back into 2001?

No, 1979.

I too am a grumpy grognard who still pines for Ye Goode Olde Daze, when heroes were heroes and gp = XP.

I believe a lot of it comes down to primary influences. My concept of fantasy is literary, deeply entrenched in Tolkein, LeGuin, Leiber, and Howard, whereas the younger generation of gamers grew up with anime and wuxia cinema. I haven't read a new fantasy novel in something like fifteen or twenty years and I'm not an anime/manga fan, so the "dungeonpunk"/"extreme fantasy" style of art and wire-fu-influenced mechanics don't appeal to me the same way they do to someone who is raised on the genre.

The language and iconography of fantasy has changed, and the game has attempted to keep up with the fanbase.

I don't think that's a bad thing - genres should grow and change. It does mean that I've lost interest in the fantasy tropes of D&D - I'll play C&C or possibly Conan RPG if I ever want to run a fantasy game again (and someday I may).

 

[Sundragon2012]

AD&D -- and he was quite clear in Dragon columns that you were GOING to play it HIS way or be playing something else -- had a cosmopolitan mix of races, a very faux European feel, wacky alien technology around the fringes, and overwhelmingly powerful magic-users pursuing their own agendas.

I give Gary credit for creating the most basic skeleton of what is now an archaic system but one upon which all current incarnations are built. Other than that I would concern myself with what Gary used to do in regards to the rather sophisticated role playing heavy campaigns I tend to run, about as much as I would concern myself with the DMing stylistic concerns voiced by my 7yr old son.

Gygax specifically told players NOT to do this.

Yeah, I know but the rules themselves didn't conspire to stop you.

That's a return to its roots. One of the earliest Gygaxian campaign entries in either The Dragon (back when it was The) or The Strategic Review discussed the characters fighting German World War II era soldiers (and winning), while another contributor talked about a character learning Wall language to interrogate dungeons as to their contents.

Another reason to care less than not at all about Mr. Gygax's perspectives on role playing, especially if he still thinks that kind of crap is....well...anything but......crap.


Chris

 

[Sammael]

Now its as if that philosophy is a part of the system making it harder for the DM to make it his own.

Sorry, but this is completely and utterly incorrect. I've been tinkering with the D&D 3E rules from the day I got the Player's Handbook. My house rules document has over 50 pages, and the game still feels and plays like D&D. Changing the game has never been easier.

Furthermore, there are literally HUNDREDS of d20 variants out there, so it's ridiculously easy to mix and match to your heart's content. Don't like the classes? Rip them out of Arcana Evolved. Don't like the magic? Here's Elements of Magic, have fun. Hit points not your cup of tea? Grim & Gritty, WP/VP, you name it. Don't want magic items? Play Iron Heroes. Heck, there are even rules for using hexes and facing and critical hits and called shots and armor as DR and psionics as skills and so on, and so forth...

 

[Sundragon2012]

A Dm's job is not easy and it is not for everyone. I think a lot of problems actually come from DMs not realizing they either are not good enough or are not putting enough enough time and thought into the game.

Ah yes pass the buck to the DMs who find that rules harwired for a certain style of gaming make DMing in another style rather difficult. :\

No, I am a very good dungeon master and have been for quite a few years. At leas this is what I have been told by the gaming groups I have run for 19yrs. I just find that the current edition of D&D while having some wonderful qualities is much harder to modify to one's liking than previous editions.


Chris