D&D SHOULD NOT have a defined atmosphere/style *Semi Rant*

[Sundragon2012]

Your 7 year old is writing rules for RPGs that you play?

Because Gary's preferences absolutely shaped what's in 1E. That you could suggest otherwise is amazing to me. The man who gave us the 1E cavalier had some very clear ideas on what belonged in a world. The way the game works is based on his preferences, for good or for ill. He created (loose) rules for player characters becoming gods, and created a system where victory meant having more magical firepower, whether in the form of spell-casters or magic items. "Most basic skeleton?" He created the very game that you claim you detest now, but he created it more than 30 years ago.

You aren't pining for 1E, and it's silly to argue that you are.

You really should read more of what I write without making assumptions. I am not in any way claiming I want 1e back or even 2e. I am simply saying that there were some things about previous editions I liked. On the whole I am a big 3.X/D20 fan.

Gygax's style of play is something I outgrew about 17yrs ago. Making up the basic rules set is great but I think the gaming style he had is terribly unsophisticated no matter if he made the game or not. He is/was a game designer not God so I can afford to have differences with him and can afford to disregard his opinions on anything I choose.

And before you make claims about what I detest you should read more of what is actually written.


Chris

 

[Crothian]

I think it is more about stylistic differences than about DM quality once one reaches a certain level of experience in the art/science of DMing. Though awful DMs do exist, I have gamed with a couple that were as bad as one could be.

THen if your style doesn't click with D&D and you are unable to change D&D to fit your style; don't play D&D. I still say a good DM can alter D&D to fit their style. A good DM doesn't blame the game for having problems he fixes them.

 

[The Shaman]

A good DM doesn't blame the game for having problems he fixes them.

Or finds a different game.

Not everyone is interested in devoting time to tweaking the system when other options are available.

I do agree that the problem is not the game - it's the gamer's expectations.

 

[Sundragon2012]

I'm sorry, but you've posted so many contradictions that I honestly can't figure out what it is you actually want.

You want the 1e feel - but wait, Gygax sucked, and his suggestions sucked, and so on.

You want the freedom to change the game as you see fit - but wait, that breaks up the balance. Must not break the balance. No, what was I saying - balance sucks, it hinders innovation, it is unnecessary.

3E isn't customizable - but wait, it is - but customizing it is difficult because it messes up the balance - but you don't actually care about the balance, do you?

You don't want dungeonpunk, you want to add your own flavor, just like in 1e - but wait, 1e had LOTS of flavor, and it included characters with ridiculous names (Bigby, Digby, Rigby, anyone?), and people wielding uber-munchkin vorpal weapons, and people finding sci-fi artifacts, and people fighting Nazis (watch the thread go berserk after this) - AND WINNING! So, that's obviously not 1e as you remember it. I never played 1e for any length of time, but plenty of people here did, and that's how they seem to remember it.

You don't want people having many magic items, but when confonted with the fact that characters had just as many magic items in the days of 1e, you say "sure, but there weren't any RULES for it then." Sure there were, you just tossed them away. Just as you can now. No special weapon materials? Sure thing, just remove the DR from monsters. It doesn't mean much, anyway. And so on, and so forth.

Maybe your right but that is because I think my rant is more about feel than any singular thing. Sometimes rants are viceral rather than logical.

Perhaps it was more how I played 1e and 2e than what the feel really was.

I am not saying one has to do this or one has to do that....

I was merely saying that I don't think that D&D should have a feel at all and that the setting should have full control over such things and that there should be very few assumptions about gaming styles because styles are as diverse as the DMs and players around the myriad tables.

I am not arguing for a return to the 1e and 2e days. I am arguing that the core books of 3.X should be game style and atmosphere neutral NO MATTER what the style of 1e or 2e were supposed to be. Maybe it never was.....and maybe it was all in my old grognard head where D&D was just a batch of rules and I never used the names in name spells as I thought that would be stupid outside of greyahwk.

That's it.

 

[Sundragon2012]

THen if your style doesn't click with D&D and you are unable to change D&D to fit your style; don't play D&D. I still say a good DM can alter D&D to fit their style. A good DM doesn't blame the game for having problems he fixes them.

I am tweaking it, which is why I am bellyaching perhaps. I am merely complaining about certain assumptions seemingly built in to the firmware of the system both stylistically and mechanically. C'mon, we all complain about something from time to time even if we do get around to fixing them.

Chris

 

[Dragonblade]

As for level advancement, I agree that the default 3e progression rates are way too fast. From 1st level farmboy to 20th level destroyer of gods in one year?! Ridiculous.

If your PCs can destroy 'gods' at 20th level, I don't think fast level advancement is necessarily the problem.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And before you make claims about what I detest you should read more of what is actually written.

I have read it. You're contradicting yourself. Perhaps you should self-edit before you complain about people not understanding your brilliant thesis.

 

[Sundragon2012]

Oh yeah....and for all you greybeards who agree with me in this little rant o' mine....nothing like really chiming in to fend off the hoary hosts as I struggled to stand upon my shaky, largely emotional, ground and was battered left and right by the power of true believers.


Chris

 

[Quasqueton]

This is not epic fantasy, this is spoiled kid power-gaming.

I'd like to point out, Aldarc, that about 90% of the people reading your post are D&D3 players -- and you just directly insulted them. Quite rude. Are you an idiot or a jackhole?

Why don't you go to the dog-owners message board and tell them how stupid their pets are?

There is a BIG difference between D&D having a lot of magical goodies and REQUIRING magical goodies in order to survive.

I call . Where is this requirement stated or suggested or hinted at in the rules?

Quasqueton

 

[I'm A Banana]

I was merely saying that I don't think that D&D should have a feel at all and that the setting should have full control over such things and that there should be very few assumptions about gaming styles because styles are as diverse as the DMs and players around the myriad tables.

You're confusing D&D with d20.

D&D is not a rules system. It is a game. Games have a particular style. Playing Monopoly is different than playing Candy Land.

d20 is the rules system. And d20 has no real default flavor.

You want to make your game out of basic ingredients, use d20. Not D&D.