D&D SHOULD NOT have a defined atmosphere/style *Semi Rant*

[Desdichado]

I remember that in the days of 1e and then 2e D&D didn't really have a FEEL. D&D was a rules set that more or less was supposed to allow the DM to create the king of homebrew setting/adventures he or she wanted to. You could hack apart the rules as you wished without causing some precious yet nebulous "game balance" to collapse all around you.

That's funny; I remember the feel of 1e quite distinctly. In fact, that's why I left D&D before 2e even came out.

It's unavoidable. No ruleset is truly generic. By codifying how the fantasy world works, you by default give it a feel and style.

That's why I like d20 so much. It's so modular that I can mold it to create any feel or style I want. That certainly wasn't true for 1e, IMO.

 

[Aldarc]

I'd like to point out, Aldarc, that about 90% of the people reading your post are D&D3 players -- and you just directly insulted them. Quite rude.

If you took such great offense, I am sorry. But you seem to be blowing my statement quite out of proportion. And guess what, I am one of those 90% who are D&D3 players, but just because I play it, it does not mean that I do not have preferences as to the direction that the game takes. As someone said, people have gamers' expectations as to how things are played. I have not played any other roleplaying game (computer RP's included) before 3E. You know what I immediately told my first DM in my gaming experience, I don't want to have to rely on magic items, so please be sparse with handing them out. I want to be the hero, not the magic item. I did not like the separation between divine and arcane magic, why isn't magic a universal force? I loved Arcana Unearthed, and that is when I put a halt on buying WotC. It was becoming apparent that it would be the 3rd-Party publishers that would totally revolutionize the system. And after Arcana Unearthed, we have Elements of Magic, Black Company, Castles & Crusaders, Blue Rose, Grim Tales, Mutants & Masterminds, and Iron Heroes that indeed have moved the game closer to the feel that I want from fantasy.

I want the literary fantasy of Middle-Earth, Thomas Covenant and the Land, Earthsea, Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire, Elric the Eternal Champion, Conan, Celtic and Nordic Myths, and The Wizard Knight. And as of now, D&D as written by WotC fails to achieve that, but in terms of a generic ruleset, I think that Grim Tales has it closest.

Are you an idiot or a jackhole?

Hmmm...I'm not too sure how to respond to this. It is something of a direct attack that shows a complete lack of taste. I wouldn't mind an apology for the rudeness on your part.

Why don't you go to the dog-owners message board and tell them how stupid their pets are?

I'm not following. Let's go back to what I was respond to.

D&D 3.X is a good game in my opinion but does anyone else sense a the creeping influence of a pervasive style...a kind of power up, magic toy, EXTREME/KEWL/IN YOUR FACE/RADICAL fantasy that is what D&D is now supposed to be?

In response to this quote, I said that I agree. Part of the problem that I have with D&D is that it is its own genre of "EXTREME/KEWL/IN YOUR FACE/RADICAL fantasy" that seems to be a huge departure from literary fantasy.

 

[Akrasia]

So you don't think a poll that asks people here "Do you like D&D[3]?" will accurately reflect whether people here like D&D[3]? ...

No I don't .

...
I would suspect the same poll taken at Dragonsfoot would get the exact opposite results. Would you discount that poll too?...

Yes I would.

I'm just making a factual point here Quas: polling on message boards is scientifically meaningless. You cannot get meaningful results from them.

Also in news: objects fall when dropped.

 

[Aldarc]

One even right out insulted everyone who likes the game (which, as I pointed out is over 80% of the people here).

I'm sorry, but from the looks of this thread, the only person that is "insulted" from this thread seems to be you.

 

[Akrasia]

... Let me quote Akrasia from another thread to express my stance ...

Ahhh Grasshopper, you are learning.

 

[Desdichado]

I'd just like to point out that my beard, when I deign to grow it, comes in quite grey, and I hated 1e with a passion. The only reason I like 3e+ is... well, I'm not sure why I like it. Probably because it's d20 and d20 is a great system. I do get annoyed by the D&Disms in 3e+ quite a bit though. Not so badly that I can't even play D&D, but enough that I can't really run it without major house rules.

 

[Akrasia]

I'd just like to point out that my beard, when I deign to grow it, comes in quite grey, and I hated 1e with a passion. ...

Noted for the record.

 

[Sir Elton]

I want the literary fantasy of Middle-Earth, Thomas Covenant and the Land, Earthsea, Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire, Elric the Eternal Champion, Conan, Celtic and Nordic Myths, and The Wizard Knight.

I want Edgar Rice Burroughs: Tarzan, Barsoom, Pelucidar, Plato's Atlantis, and Howard's Conan.

 

[Mystery Man]

I'd just like to point out that my beard, when I deign to grow it, comes in quite grey, and I hated 1e with a passion.

Me too!

Grey as all get out but the hair on my head is fine. What's up with that?

 

[Nightfall]

I remember that in the days of 1e and then 2e D&D didn't really have a FEEL. D&D was a rules set that more or less was supposed to allow the DM to create the king of homebrew setting/adventures he or she wanted to. You could hack apart the rules as you wished without causing some precious yet nebulous "game balance" to collapse all around you.

There was Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, Planescape, Birthright, Ravenloft, etc. All of these settings where in 1e and 2e respectively and all used the same rule set with necessary modifications to suit the setting.

One could run around in senseless dungeons, could have coherent settings, etc. without difficulty. The setting was supposed to provide the flavor while D&D post Gygax had no particular flavor. The system was a generic, mathematical, dice rolling system that was the hum in the background but didn't need to be carefully balanced.....good, experienced DMs balanced their own games.

(please note I am not saying that the rules themselves for 1e and 2e were better, IMO they weren't save for the ability to hack them literally to pieces without destroying the system)

D&D 3.X is a good game in my opinion but does anyone else sense a the creeping influence of a pervasive style...a kind of power up, magic toy, EXTREME/KEWL/IN YOUR FACE/RADICAL fantasy that is what D&D is now supposed to be?

Look at the art, the style of dress, the poses of characters and monsters who seem more about how "kick ass" they are with their cool feat trees, dragonblooded/fiend/god touched/knight/monk multiclasses, and a general idea that combat effectiveness and kewl/extreme powers is the defining quality of value in the context of a role playing game.

God, and look at level advancement.....one year, if played as expected, to reach 20th level. Gimme a break. A character of that level in D&D 1e or 2e could regale listeners for hours and hours, probably days, about the adventures they've had. Compared to those characters, modern PCs haven't done squat to get where they are.

Now I am not denigrating combat effectiveness or maximizing a character, I am instead talking about the style, presentation and feel of the core books and the supposition that D&D is supposed to be this or that.

Just my thoughts and a semi rant.

Any thoughts of your own?


Chris

Two thoughts of my own:

One D&D is always about killing stuff. If it wasn't, people wouldn't want treasure, spells or stuff. They'd be playing something else.

Two, Scarred Lands man. Do NOT forget Scarred Lands!!!