D&D: To Skill Or Not To Skill

[Leif]

3rd & 4th Ed. D&D, at least have specific rules for learning and using skills. 1st Ed. AD&D, on the other hand, substituted, in my games at least, saving throws to determine whether a character could do what he wanted to do. Various modifiers applied to said saves (generally saves vs. petrification/polymorph), depending on the circumstances, but generally it all boiled down to "DM Discretion." It was ad hoc, and it was by no means exact, but we didn't know any better at the time and it served the purpose of the game, again -- at the time. I still miss those simpler times somewhat, although I'm currently re-living them in the two AD&D 1E games I'm running here. Anyone else have relevant experiences to share?

In some ways, the skill point system is more limiting, because specifying what you character CAN do necessarily also specifies what he/she CAN'T do.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

In some ways, the skill point system is more limiting, because specifying what you character CAN do necessarily also specifies what he/she CAN'T do.

I never played 1st edition so cannot speak to that, but I love the 3rd edition skill system. I have to echo what [MENTION=95351]Omegaxicor[/MENTION] said, Just because I have 0 or low ranks in a skill doesn't mean I can't do something, a high roll with my stat modifiers may still lead to success. At the same time, maxed ranks and rolling a 1 means I always run the risk of whatever I've mastered being all clutzed up.
The skill system allows me detailed character customization/development. Whatever I roll is still opposing whatever the DM has on this sheet-i-can't-see and so ultimately it still is DM descretion. However, I still have the reard of knowing that thing I've spent so much time developing, has a very high likelihood of success and I can get satisfaction from that.

 

[DMKastmaria]

I use Saving Throws (sometimes modified by the relevant ability score bonus) and Ability Score checks, the former for tasks that are class related, or in which the pc would reasonably have some level of expertise.

For instance, a Player may need to know if his Magic-User Character is familiar with an obscure arcane legend. In such instances, the Character’s Saving Throw would be used to adjudicate his attempted action.


Table 40: Ability Score Checks

Difficulty Roll Score or Less On

Easy 2d6
Moderate 3d6
Challenging 4d6
Very Hard 5d6
Almost Impossible 6d6

In the case of the Obscure Magical Legend, mentioned above, a Fighter would have a chance to know something about this specific subject, but only if he made a Very Hard, or if the circumstances warrant, an Almost Impossible, Ability Check. (Maybe his crazy, wizard uncle used to scare him silly, with horrifying tales and arcane myths.)


I don't require checks for every little thing, though. If the MU is tough enough to go adventuring, I'm willing to let him climb a tree, without having to roll for it.

I also use the "Good At" system, which a fellow over at the S&W boards proposed. A player can choose something non-class related that he's "Good At" at first level. At fourth, he can pick another "Good At" or choose to be "Really Good At" the skill he picked at first. Etc., every four levels, thereafter. The skill can be anything the player chooses.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I would use ability score checks, similar to the proficiency system in AD&D 2e, but less defined. You might use the D&D 3e skill list to help determine which sorts of skill uses fall under what ability scores, or you could just wing it.

 

[Ahnehnois]

When playing 2e, and switching to 3e, I was amazed at how the skill system let me describe my character much better and allowed me to break the mold and do nonstandard things.

Class skills and other problems dampened the excitement eventually, but it's still a great system. That said, I've seen other rogs that do it better. I like skill trees, wherein you have a few basic vague skills that cover an enormous variety of things, and then if you want to get really good at something you have to specialize within each of those skills.

That said, I can't imagine D&D without skills now.

 

[Leif]

When playing 2e, and switching to 3e, I was amazed at how the skill system let me describe my character much better and allowed me to break the mold and do nonstandard things.

Class skills and other problems dampened the excitement eventually, but it's still a great system. That said, I've seen other rogs that do it better. I like skill trees, wherein you have a few basic vague skills that cover an enormous variety of things, and then if you want to get really good at something you have to specialize within each of those skills.

That said, I can't imagine D&D without skills now.

I only briefly played 2E, and I never got the hang of it to tell the truth. Then I went on a D&D hiatus for ten years or more and got back into it about 2 years before 4E was released. 3.5E does have a great skill system, but I think I like the ad hoc, fly-by-the-seat-of-my-pants method of 1E AD&D with ability checks and saving throws, too.

 

[Leif]

I would use ability score checks, similar to the proficiency system in AD&D 2e, but less defined. You might use the D&D 3e skill list to help determine which sorts of skill uses fall under what ability scores, or you could just wing it.

Good advice! Somehow I always forget the ability score checks. Rats!

I use Saving Throws (sometimes modified by the relevant ability score bonus) and Ability Score checks, the former for tasks that are class related, or in which the pc would reasonably have some level of expertise.

For instance, a Player may need to know if his Magic-User Character is familiar with an obscure arcane legend. In such instances, the Character’s Saving Throw would be used to adjudicate his attempted action.


Table 40: Ability Score Checks

Difficulty Roll Score or Less On

Easy 2d6
Moderate 3d6
Challenging 4d6
Very Hard 5d6
Almost Impossible 6d6

In the case of the Obscure Magical Legend, mentioned above, a Fighter would have a chance to know something about this specific subject, but only if he made a Very Hard, or if the circumstances warrant, an Almost Impossible, Ability Check. (Maybe his crazy, wizard uncle used to scare him silly, with horrifying tales and arcane myths.)


I don't require checks for every little thing, though. If the MU is tough enough to go adventuring, I'm willing to let him climb a tree, without having to roll for it.

I also use the "Good At" system, which a fellow over at the S&W boards proposed. A player can choose something non-class related that he's "Good At" at first level. At fourth, he can pick another "Good At" or choose to be "Really Good At" the skill he picked at first. Etc., every four levels, thereafter. The skill can be anything the player chooses.

Okay! This is a useful bit of knowledge! I always saw ability checks as being made on 1d20, but that system looks like it would be very nearly perfect! Umm, I looked and looked but I can't find that chart in my 1E AD&D DMG. Got a page number for it?

 

[Leif]

I never played 1st edition so cannot speak to that, but I love the 3rd edition skill system. I have to echo what [MENTION=95351]Omegaxicor[/MENTION] said, Just because I have 0 or low ranks in a skill doesn't mean I can't do something, a high roll with my stat modifiers may still lead to success. At the same time, maxed ranks and rolling a 1 means I always run the risk of whatever I've mastered being all clutzed up.

Fair enough, RUMBLETiGER and Omegaxicor. Thanks for the XP, Omegaxicor.