Pathfinder 1E D&D4 and Pathfinder can coexist

[RFisher]

This is what I do when reading these sorts of “wars”...

Read everything in the most positive way I can. Out of all the meanings and tone I can ascribe to a sentence, I choose the best rather than the worst.

I assume everyone is employing rhetorical hyperbolé and don’t take outrageous statements as being meant to be taken literally.

I imagine everything delivered with a smile. As if the participants are all old friends who can make friendly pokes one another without harm.

And generally just interpret it all as comedy instead of drama.

Well, that’s what I try to do. Sometimes I don’t make the DC.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I'm sorry Joe Sala (if that's even your real name ), but this outburst of wisdom, this... sudden outbreak of common sense... it can not be abided by. You're breaking the internet, and you must be stopped. Expect ninja pirate wizards riding dinosaurs at your doorstep, where they will confiscate your books and your internets. You're done here pal.

(I didn't have anything better to say than you did in your post. If only more people were more people like you. Also, I totally stole most of those sayings. )

 

[Stalker0]

So, YAY, 4E! WOO-HOO! GO PATHFINDER! Keep bringin' in that new blood!

Basically both platforms doing well could be really good for the hobby, or really bad.

On the one hand, two games could mean more people playing, and getting to play the game they want.

On the other hand, remember, dnd is a very niche market. If pathfinder takes a decent percentage of WOTC's revenue, 4e may not be profitable enough to continue.

When 3e came out, it was the only game in town. Sure you could continue to play 2e, but you were left with what you got. Now you have two platforms to choose from. Normally that's great, but when profit margins are very thin there's a minimum fanbase you need to keep the game chuggin.

 

[pemerton]

I think the major concern is that, no, they cannot sustain themselves while the other is around. With the new edition comes a split in the RPG market, and perhaps two systems competing to be the standard will result in only one remaining.

I dont' get why people think that Paizo is competing with Wizards.

I think I agree with dmccoy. For the past 30 years there have always been a number of other fantasy RPG publishers hoping to get people to play their game instead of D&D (eg ICE, Hero, Steve Jackson, Palladium, Pelgranet, Chaosium/Mongoose, Flying Buffalo etc).

In terms of its sales targets, its workforce size, its situation in the fantasy RPG market, etc, does Paizo differ in any interesting way from all these other publishers?

 

[charlesatan]

On the other hand, remember, dnd is a very niche market. If pathfinder takes a decent percentage of WOTC's revenue, 4e may not be profitable enough to continue.

Both can co-exist. Even during the days of 3.5, we had alternate systems like Osiric and True20. I don't see how any of this is different. In the end, Paizo will succeed on its own merits rather than WotC's. The same goes for WotC.

 

[Darrin Drader]

When 3e came out, it was the only game in town.

WEG d6
Earthdawn
Shadowrun
GURPS
Alternity
World of Darkness

.... those were just the big ones and I know I'm missing some. The standardization that became possible with the OGL helped bury some of these, but D&D hasn't been the only game in town almost since it appeared out of Gary Gygax's genius mind back in 1974. Pathfinder isn't even the only d20 game its competing with. There's also Tru20, Conan, M&M, and a bunch more that are still in production. The real question is whether D&D 4E can survive competing with itself. It will do fine. I'm not even concerned.

If all the drama is over people thinking that Pathfinder is going to kill D&D, forget about it. WotC would have to not only drop the ball, but soak the ball in gasoline, set it on fire, and throw it into a crowd of young children for that to happen.... and even if they did all that, it still might not happen.

 

[pemerton]

When 3e came out, it was the only game in town. Sure you could continue to play 2e, but you were left with what you got.

As others have said, there were a heap of fantasy RPGs as alternatives to 2nd ed AD&D, and have been for all of the past 30 years (RM, RQ, T&T, C&S, Hero, GURPS, Palladium, just to name a few).

And if what is meant to distinguish Pathfinder is that it is D&D under a different label, well that's true also of Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, Conan OGL, C&C, OSRIC and Basic Fantasy (and the latter two are free downloads, I think). No one is predicting that any of them will knock of D&D or the hobby as a whole.

The only thing that could differentiate Paizo from any of the publishers of the above-mentioned games would be a greater capacity to produce and distribute material (roughly, that is, its capital - I think the staff are probably available if the money is there). What will determine whether Pathfinder knocks of D&D won't be mechanics, but finance. And from what Darrin Drader is saying (and I get the impression he's in a position to know) it sounds like Paizo is not a significantly bigger publishing entity than any other mid-size RPG company. Unless I'm wrong in suggesting that, Pathfinder won't knock off D&D.

 

[Gailbraithe]

Is it worse at RPG.net or Paizo?

Can't speak to rpg.net since I don't read that forum (way too many non-gamers giving advice to neophyte gamers for my tastes), but the paizo forums are pretty rosy.

Of course, that's because anyone who speaks ill of paizo and Pathfinder is ridden out on a rail by the packs of rabid charter superscribers. Even on the internet, there aren't many brave enough or careles enough with their time to try to beard the lion in his own den.

Much like the WOTC forums seem to be pleasently pretending Pathfinder does not exist. You know, on those two days out of the month they're actually up....

I think it's only the "No Man's Lands" and the neutral boards where there is real animosity.

Though over on therpgsite.com (plug!) the release of Pathfinder has quieted the 3.5 fans who hated 4E, and there has been much burying of hatchets.

I get why their was so much acrimony when it looked like 4E was going to leave a lot of 3.5 fans without any support, but I seriously don't get why 3.5 fans would still be grinding an axe now that Pathfinder has come to rescue the game.

And I think the 4E fans who are attacking Pathfinder are really being petty. I mean seriously, what's the deal? You're offended that we're going to keep playing 3.5 now that it's a viable option? What's that about?

The above was a rhetorical question. I don't actually want to know what thats about.

 

[Jack99]

If the pathfinder rules had 250.000 unique downloads, I might be worried about Pathfinder taking a significant chunk and cause worry about 4e being able to make enough money.

As it is, they just broke the 25.000 mark, according to Mr. Mona. Some of which are merely people who are curious, to see what Paizo come up with. Sure, some people that actually haven't downloaded the beta will buy into Pathfinder RPG, but I really doubt we will see an explosion of sales, compared to the downloaded numbers. The price alone is bound to seem intimidating for some.

Which (and this is a pure guess) will leave the Pathfinder RPG as a decent to good sized second (third?) tier game in the RPG business, just like so many others, generating a healthy amount of $$ to Lisa, Erik and all the rest.

I wish them luck.

 

[Darrin Drader]

And from what Darrin Drader is saying (and I get the impression he's in a position to know) it sounds like Paizo is not a significantly bigger publishing entity than any other mid-size RPG company. Unless I'm wrong in suggesting that, Pathfinder won't knock off D&D.

I can share what I know, because it isn't anything that anybody else can't piece together (and they haven't shared their private financial info with me). They're one of the few RPG companies that has a full time paid staff. Also, I don't think they're skating by on inertia left over from the magazines. As you say, that makes them mid-tier, if you consider WotC and White Wolf top tier.