D&D's about fun right?

[Tsyr]

Deep Imersion Storytelling?...... Does anyone actually do this?

Yes. Probably my favorite DM/GM around here runs games like this. His stories are fantastic, his gameplay is quick and lively, and you never feel bogged down. Ever. We still use dice and rules, of course, for combat and a few other things, but even there we tend to get very cinimatic about it, ignoring rules occasionaly (For example, we ignore AoO if the character was doing something heroic and stylish that should have provoked one, to encourage people to do heroic and stylish stuff. Just a small example.

 

[Talvisota]

And your chocolate out of my peanut butter, arcady!

(Just couldn't resist.)

 

[Johno]

Ahem...

Not to knock anybody here, but I think the blatantly obvious has mean missed:

I don't care how you play in your game. Its how players play in my game that can cause strife.

Seriously. If your group have fun sitting around in your cellar dressed in peanut butter and chocalate, ignoring the rules and slaughtering the gods, i could care less. In fact it sounds strangely interesting in a perverse kind of way. Maybe that's just me.

Where it DOES become a problem, is when someone ends up with two players expecting very different things from their game, and the DM wants something else. Then, strangely, even by the rules, noone has fun. munckin or no. peanut butter and chocalate coating or no.

A good reason why I stick to playing with friends I have known for a long time.

 

[Vaxalon]

What is a munchkin?

If it's fun, why not? If the DM can handle it, and everyone is having fun and having their chance to shine, then isn't it just another gaming style?

This is where my definition of "munchkin" comes in. A munchkin is someone who has the following characteristics:

1> Sees himself in an adversarial relationship with the DM, rather than seeing his character in an adversarial relationship with some NPC's.

2> Sees himself in a competitive relationship with the other players, rather than seeing his character in a competitive and/or cooperative relationship with the other characters. The resource to be competed for is DM attention.

These characteristics commonly create the following behaviors:

1> The creation of characters who can do everything, who are vulnerable to nothing and/or capable of beating any challenge singlehandedly.

2> The creation of characters who have no 'hooks' or motivations that the DM can use to influence his behavior, or that other players can use to forge alliances with the character.

3> Use of the rules as a tool to dominate the game, rather than as a framework for cooperation between players and DM.

I'll go out on a limb and say that these kinds of behaviors, backed up by the motivations I have outlined, create an environment that is not conducive to fun.

It would be like going to play a friendly game of golf to find that one of the players was "playfully" distracting the other players when they were taking their shots. That's not 'just another style of play', it's disruptive and inappropriate, and any group that finds itself with this kind of player would promptly fail to invite him back, and for good reason.

 

[Jeremy]

I'm even puzzledwhy the thread was brought up unless someone was out dissing you personally on here. Play however you want.

Not personally, just people in general who tend to make educated decisions in spending their rewards in the interest of preserving the lives of their characters which happens to include me and a lot of people I know and respect.

Generally people on this board are very lenient, but I was feeling a little anger management problem building after some time forcedly spent on another board where leniency is not in existance. Then I came "home" (I wub EN Boards!) and found I ("we", really) was being decried here indirectly.

Rather than flame the guy who has a right to his opinion, I vented here and tried to make my case. Sorry for the rant but it made me feel better and hopefully spared the other guy's feelings.

Originally posted by Johno

I don't care how you play in your game. Its how players play in my game that can cause strife.

Seriously. If your group have fun sitting around in your cellar dressed in peanut butter and chocalate, ignoring the rules and slaughtering the gods, i could care less. In fact it sounds strangely interesting in a perverse kind of way. Maybe that's just me.

Where it DOES become a problem, is when someone ends up with two players expecting very different things from their game, and the DM wants something else. Then, strangely, even by the rules, noone has fun. munckin or no. peanut butter and chocalate coating or no.

A good reason why I stick to playing with friends I have known for a long time.

I think I agree with you? If that says what I think it says, that is..

But the main point of the post wasn't defending any one style of gaming over another but rather defending everyone's right to play whichever style they like without being bashed by someone else who's opinion of what's fun and what's not is different.

Originally posted by rounser

The examples also suggest the mental shorthand of "think of high level effects like you would Dragonball Z". That makes quite a few things a lot more envisionable...thanks Ron.

Whatever makes it most enjoyable to you! For instance I have an elven archer that is absolutely lethal. He is a psychic warrior/deepwood sniper who happens to have boots of striding and springing and two psionic powers related to speed: skate and burst. Rather than saying he skates along the ground like a figure skater, I mentally imagine and then describe him summoning a path of solid green energy in a 5' wide straight line in front of him, followed by a burst of green energy that propells him along it. As he sprints along he looks something like a green fireball with him in the middle of it. Why do I describe it like that?

Because otherwise someone using the run action to move at 360' might knock you out of the cinema of a combat and into the "Hey! You can't do that!" mentality. D&D 3e is all about what you can do. Anything can be done, it's just a matter of difficulty and imagination. Instead of telling you you can't do something, it tells you exactly how difficult it is to manage and within what limits.

So if you want to use a kaoken eruption of energy to simulate the effect a divine power or righteous might spell has, or a kamehameha wave to simulate the intense blast of a high-level searing light spell in your mind, do it! You'll have a big stupid grin on your face that shouts to the world how much fun you are having and will encourage your friends to do the same.

I love drawing upon anime when I imagine things, that and Marvel (the green path for skate came from Iceman ). It helps me visualize the physically impossible and reminds me that D&D is not reality. D&D is my escape from reality and my hobby. It's a game I play for fun. Both media are also very visual which helps immensly in a largely aural game.

Eek. I'm gonna tank this thread rambling like this. I'll shut up now. Um.. Let's see, witty yet wise closing statement/saying...

Uh...

How about.. Confucious say, "If you walk a mile in another man's shoes, then you are a mile away with his shoes."

 

[Chairman_Kaga]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[Quickbeam]

I think Johno makes a good point. For my part, I'm not overly concerned with what means or style of playing D&D produces enjoyment for the gaming population in general. I'm concerned mainly with my own campaign (as egocentric as that may sound), and the behaviors which most frequently bring strife into our group. We rotate DMing in our group a couple times each year, so that different styles of play are emphasized and alternated. That way, no one feels left out in the dark or ridiculed for their preferences and everyone has a chance to shine.

If your group prefers a high-powered style of play, bully for you! If you like low level low magic gaming, great! After all it is just a game, where fun is the promary objective.

 

[Zappo]

Can't we all just get along?

No. It would be boring.

I have no problems with anyone's style of play as long as they don't hinder the others' enjoyment of the game. Certain people who view the game as competitive do so. The percentage is higher among powergamers. But powergaming is a symptom, not the cause.

 

[gamecat]

D&D isn't about fun. It's about getting in arguments.

 

[shadow]

Am I a "munchkin"?

I personally perfer high power gaming, with emphasis on the rules vs. "storytelling". I've played in a few "deep emersion storytelling" games before and absolutely hated them because of the lack of visible action and because I often felt left out. Since emphasis was on dialogue and speaking skill, people with natural charisma and social skill dominated the game, whereas I, a somewhat shy and socially awkward person, was left out.
Am I bashing on this style of game? NO! If you like doing this style of game, then go ahead and play that way. There is no one "right" way to play. However, I expect people to respcet my style of game. I have been called a "munchkin" before simply because I enjoy high level play, with emphasis on dungeon crawling, rather than political intrigue. I would much rather my character explore an old forgotten crypt full of monsters and traps, rather than have to play the political arena. Is there anything wrong with this style of play? Then why am I called a "munchkin"? Why has dungeon crawling and "old school gaming" seen as an inferior style of play, to deep imersion storytelling? Why is perfering high level characters that can boast of combat prowess considered "munchkin" and "juvenile"? Can't people respect this style of playing, rather than constantly demeaning it?
/end rant/