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d20 BESM: Everstone Companion

Tetsubo

First Post
I just picked up a hardcover copy of this book last weekend for $5. So far I have been very impressed. Impressed enough to order a copy of BESM D20 as well. The customizable classes are great. And I like their take on races, with the hit die being tied to the race rather than the class. Highly recommended.
 

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Sorta late responding here... been trying to sort out a bunch of stuff this past month with having made an international move.

It's nice to see someone else is grooving on Everstone. If you happen to run a game, post something about it.

As I've said before, it's got some quirks but it's a perfectly functional game as it is. It's also pretty nice being a "standalone" game; you really can run the game using nothing more than the Everstone book.

BESMd20... I'm not sure how you'll like it. I thought it had/has some potential, but I wasn't wild about some of the things like skill based combat. Everstone shifting the rules back part way towards the usual d20 approach was good I felt.

If you can get the BESMd20 cheap, it's probably worth having. There were a couple of bits in Everstone (I can't remember right now off the top of my head) that seemed a bit curious, but made sense when I looked at my Stingy Gamer's edition.

In theory, the spells were all done using the BESMd20 rules. I tried working out the costs on one or two of them, but it wasn't exactly intuitive to me how they got from the start to the 3 rank (for many of them) costs.

I'd also like to rather belatedly thank jdrakeh for the link to the Anime SRD. I knew about Evil Hat's version, but liked linking to the GoO one since they had the rtf version in case someone wanted to mess with it. But the Evil Hat one is a nice enough pdf of it.

Everstone and the d20 version of the Lone Wolf game are still my two favorite implementations of the d20 rules.
 

Tetsubo

First Post
I'm still working my way through Everstone, doing a cover-to-cover read. So far I'm loving it.

One thing that struck me is that the classes make me think of the CA Warlock. Which is a good thing. I consider the Warlock to be what the Sorcerer *should* have been. A nice tight, limited list of abilities that still allows a lot of customization. I'm also liking that the class attributes in Everstone are 'disengaged'. By that I mean there aren't any prerequisites. Want Cleave but not Power Attack? Go for it. I really like that. And the Border Marshall is the best Ranger version I've ever seen.

I got my copy of BESM D20 in the mail yesterday. I'll be looking at that later.

I had a copy of the Everstone Companion printed up and bound yesterday as well. That one is next after the core book.

I really want to play a War Golem. :)
 

I'm also liking that the class attributes in Everstone are 'disengaged'. By that I mean there aren't any prerequisites. Want Cleave but not Power Attack? Go for it. I really like that.

Yeah, they really did try and open things up. It's mentioned in the book, but bear mentioning again... you can take just about any feat that you qualify for. Certain ones got a remake for Everstone, so it's always possible for the GM to give a similar treatment to other feats. And of course, some feats just don't apply. I think metamagic feats fall into this category although I'm not positive, since I've refused to play a caster in 3E.

Another thing to notice is the Everstonian ability to "Focus Energy" (pg 57). For 5 Energy points they can re-roll checks and a few other things. Depending on the kind of game you want to run, you might consider allowing _any_ of the characters to do that. In fact, you could just use a base cost of 5 EP to function like Action Points; it's an easy license to be cool. I personally disliked the usual Action Point approach of only getting a certain number a level and all that. If you simply do it as an Energy Point cost, you're going to have people actively trying to do cool stuff. Another advantage to tying it into the EP economy is that it's one less resource that people have to track. Instead, it becomes another potential tool for the player to deploy. It makes 'em think about what they can do and what their energy will allow.

The other reason for noticing the ability is because it's an easily overlooked one. The players might need to be reminded every so often about that capability for their character.

I had a copy of the Everstone Companion printed up and bound yesterday as well. That one is next after the core book.

Yeah, the Companion is pretty groovy. It talks a bit about using the dynamic casting but they didn't actually include the conversion chart for EP per level. It's on page 165 of the main book. There's also some bits in there for the golem familiars that you might consider using for the regular War Golems.

I really want to play a War Golem. :)

Heh. That's the one my wife zeroed right in on too. :D

The War Golem is the weakest class in the main book I think. The reason I think it's weak is because all the other characters can just _buy_ these various weapons and stuff. The War Golem on the other hand has to pay for them using character points. And the majority of what the War Golem can buy is weapons.

Some might argue that it's "fair" since the golem can't ever be disarmed, but I'd disagree. I get the impression that they were of two minds regarding the War Golem. One, "This is COOL!" and two, "Crap. People are going to complain about how overpowered this is, we'd better try and 'balance' it".

If the War Golem had extra stuff that it could put points into buying, that'd be one thing. But there's actually not very much for the War Golem to invest in. It's kinda like the Fighter out of the core book I guess. It's going to have enough CP that it can start loading up on Feats.

One thing that I think helps to address this is allowing a few bits out of the Companion for the Familiars; if you can do it for the little fellas, it's hard not to allow it for the big ones.

Another thing to consider is allowing some of the Tattoos to be inscribed on the Golems as well.

In my game, I also modified the Golem slightly. Instead of it being the towering monstrousity that it is in the book, I shrank it down to Medium; my game was an urban based one, and I felt a smaller War Golem made sense. It was the "Urban" model.

In general, I noticed that the Everstone characters were definitely tougher than a regular D&D character. Everstone doesn't have access to easy healing in general, unlike D&D, but since it's using a version of the Vitality/Wound Points system, that lack of easy healing isn't actually as much of a hinderance as you might think.

The other thing to possibly watch out for is the teleportation thing. I didn't have a problem with it, but for some reason teleportation of one sort or another seems to give a chunk of GMs a fit. It's not that difficult to work around, especially since a lot of the scrying spells aren't in Everstone by default. And the Teleport is a self only spell (Moon Magi), with the Portal spell (Shadow Magi) being useable on a much shorter range.

There's other ways of dealing with it too, so that certain areas can be made "proof" against Teleportation like you might expect them to be.

One is that a War Golem can be a Magi. Yeah, if you read the fluff you're given the strong impression that War Golems are barely above trained dogs in terms of their IQ and self initiative. But they don't _have_ to be that way.

Moon Magi get the Unravel Spell ability (pg 86). Depending on the situation, I can certainly see Moon Magi being a part of a security force, and of course being equipped with Spell Breaker (pg 151) on their armor. It'd also make a fair amount of sense for a security force to be composed of more than one type of Magi. I got the rather strong impression that in the game world, they tend to like to have a team of 3 and possibly have that augmented by a Wargolem. Certainly a team of Moon Magi and Sun Magi would make a lot of sense.

Then there's Runes of Warding (pg 85). Certainly they could be put to use securing areas.

And last, but certainly not least are the Magi Shackles (pg 137). Given the nature of the Magi, it certainly makes sense that they'd have Shackles in the first place. It also doesn't seem like an unreasonable assumption that the principle that the Shackles work on could be applied to certain areas. Say, a throne room. Guards assigned duty in the throne room could be equppied with some sort of shielding that renders them immune to the effect of the Shackled throne room, but others wouldn't be.

And hey, at the end of the day... look at the world around you. All kinds of crime and stuff goes on despite there being technology of various sorts that should discourage or outright prevent the crime from happening. No reason to think that Everstone is going to be any different.

The big key to remember with Everstone is that it's not a European medieval world with some magic tossed in there, like some people want (or run) D&D to be. It's full on, in your face, big magic. It might not be in the hands of "everyday" people, but it's certainly not a rare thing that's going to freak out people.
 

Tetsubo

First Post
In some ways the setting makes me think of the bastard child of Earthdawn and Jorune with a little Lovecraft tossed in. And as you point out, it is all about the Big Magic. There doesn't seem to be an air of worshiping at the Altar of Balance in the game. I mean it has some but not as chronically as a core D&D game.

As I haven't finished reading the two books yet I haven't fully absorbed the game. You bring up some very valid points however.

One of the first things I thought of was what kind of class to play with a Golem that went against type. And having a Medium Golem makes a lot of sense. I thought about having the 'light' build model at least be Medium. Though playing a quadruped offers some interesting challenges...

A Kataan Border marshal would be a lot of fun as well. I would make the females less 'cat-girl' though, more anthro feline. The males have the right look.

I bought the book because it was $5 and had this blatantly garish cover. I thought to myself, "Oooo, something to add to my Bad RPG collection." Than I got home and started to read it. As soon as I read that bit about hit die being tied to race rather than class I fell in love. THEN I thought, "A diamond in the rough. Lets see what we can mine..."

In all seriousness, this game may be the closest I've ever seen of a 'real' fantasy setting for D&D.

Goddess I love the 3.5 system.
 

I too was attracted to the cover. :)

I skimmed the book and thought, "Cool, this is what Eberron wanted to be but couldn't."

I don't really know either Earthdawn or Jorune, so I can't comment too much on that.

As for the balance thing... yeah. It's the thing I think that really stopped a lot of people from getting into BESMd20 in general. The BESM line of books in general relied a lot more on the Players and GM coming to an agreement about things, instead of relying strictly on the rules. BESMd20 got hit for a number of different reasons. One, they basically said, "We think WotC didn't do a good job balancing things." That's automatically not going to endear you to a chunk of folks.

Then they turned around and assigned point values to thing; it is not possible to make people happy with a point cost. There's _always_ going to be somebody that thinks it's priced wrong for reasons A,B, and C. BESMd20 assigning points to stuff was more along the lines of "We feel that this is going to have more of an impact in a game than that". Whereas most people treat a point system as "This is worth more (or less) than that. It's a bit of a subtle difference in terms of what you're trying to get out of your point system, but it's one that didn't go down too well I don't think.

Sadly, Everstone wound up getting crap advertising and it came out at a time similar to Eberron. Between general dislike for BESMd20, no real advertising, and having to try and appeal against Eberron... pretty much a hopeless cause.

*shrug*

Still, I got my money's worth out of the game and then some. I'm hoping to be able to run it once I get a group lined up out here.

As for a War Golem that went against type, my wife went for the Urban model and made it a Moon Magi. I let her have access to the War Golem bits, but she had to pay for them using CP as normal. It seemed to work out well enough. She also explicitly made the War Golem be female. At the time that I ended the game, she was planning on making her character a golem familar. Not so much as a substitute kid, more along the lines of the character having a companion, as well as trying to figure out what exactly it meant to be a Golem.

I probably would have gone for a quadraped golem myself if I'd had someone to run the game for me.

I understand the "cat girl" thing. It doesn't bother me, but I like the idea of the females looking more like the males do. Kinda like Sekhmet or Bast.

I personally liked the game enough that I bought 4 copies of the book ($5 a pop), so that way it was a zero investment issue for the group I was with. A couple of them liked it enough that they went ahead and bought their own books later.
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
I really enjoyed the D20 BESM as well. Do you think there's any hope of a 4e version? Or maybe something that will fit with the revamp of modern? I was pretty sad when i saw that BESM 3e was going back to the old tri-stat system.
 

I really enjoyed the D20 BESM as well. Do you think there's any hope of a 4e version? Or maybe something that will fit with the revamp of modern? I was pretty sad when i saw that BESM 3e was going back to the old tri-stat system.

Errrr... you're kind of mixing up some things.

BESM was based off the Tri-Stat system from.. 2E on as I recall. BESM 3E wasn't going back, it was simply continuing the same trend.

BESMd20 was, quite frankly, actively disliked by most people online. The d20 fans disliked it for a variety of reasons, and the BESM fans disliked it because they felt that Guardians of Order was simply ignoring them and trying to cash in on the d20 craze.

Basically, GoO managed to annoy their established fan-base and managed to annoy their prospective fan-base as well.

Most of the BESM fans that are out there are fans of one of the various non-d20 iterations of BESM. The assumptions of BESM and the d20 system don't really mesh very well.

As for a 4E thing... no. For several reasons.

One, Guardians of Order is out of business.

Two, White Wolf seems to be the license holder for all the BESM properties. They've demonstrated no interest in doing anything with the line. Right now, they're focused on doing their various WoD games, Exalted, and working on the Eve-online PnP rpg.

Three, BESM d20 was one of those various products that I think WotC had in mind (along with Spycraft, Mutants & Masterminds, and others) that basically was "competing" with D&D. It wasn't just "here's how to use D&D to play another kind of game". Instead, it was a full on game on its own.

Part of the new 4E GSL (which is basically a new name for a modified d20 STL) seems to be clamping down on things so that products like M&M, BESMd20, and others don't get spun off.

So.... BESM 4E (either as a Tri-Stat or as 4E D&D).... I wouldn't hold my breath.

It's possible that somewhere along the way, somone is going to be interested enough in doing a point-based version of D&D 4E that they'll figure out a way to do it. Considering how little interest there's been in point-based d20 for the past 8 years... I don't know that anyone will actually think it's worth the effort.

As for Everstone in 4E. I'm _extremely_ doubtful. The author of Everstone hasn't posted online in years that I know of. Could Everstone be run under 4E? I don't have the 4E books, so I don't know for certain. My guess is, it could be run under 4E just like anything else that's 3rd Ed could be run under 4E. *shrug* The problem is, Everstone has different assumptions from BESMd20, and BESMd20 had different assumptions from d20. 4E has different assumptions from d20. I'm honestly not sure that trying to do Everstone under 4E would be worth the effort.

Disclaimer: I'm nobody official. This is just my opinion on stuff, and as such it could be wrong. It's probably disagreed with by other people. If you accept my opinon as being valid, it will make you a beautiful person, but only in my eyes. Attempts to act as if you're a beautiful person outside of my opinion, could result in bodily harm or injury. The Game Police will not kick in your door, shave your cat, and melt your dice, while whacking you with a rulebook because you've decided to do something that is different than the "official" rules.

However, I might shave your cat for fun.
 


Tetsubo

First Post
Ok, I finished looking at BESM D20. It fell short of what I wanted. I guess I was comparing it to Everstone. It didn't fare well in that comparison. It seems to have not gone far enough. Though I'm sure you could use it to run an anime game. I don't have the other version of BESM to compare it to though.

My thoughts on Everstone:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EatEMPbHuAs&feature=channel_page]YouTube - Everstone: Blood Legacy RPG[/ame]
 

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