D20 Black Company conversions/ideas sought

[mmu1]

I'd like to help as well, if possible... Let me know what kind of things you're looking for.

By the way, for Taken insanity, you might want to consider something similar to the RttToEE Insanity Domain mechanic, although probably toned down a little.

 

[hellbender]

I'd like to help as well, if possible... Let me know what kind of things you're looking for.

By the way, for Taken insanity, you might want to consider something similar to the RttToEE Insanity Domain mechanic, although probably toned down a little.

Mmu1, I am putting up the bare bones of the BC d20 site today and I would be more than happy to accept any assistance from you (as well as that of others). Feel free to email me (forvalaka@cableone.net) with anything you would like to further the project.

hellbender

 

[dave_o]

Be sure to add me to your mailing-list/address book/psionic contact leaflet.

 

[hellbender]

Be sure to add me to your mailing-list/address book/psionic contact leaflet.

From the beginning, dave_o, from the beginning. I am getting off my tail and forging forward, working on the page at the same time. I will be playstesting the rules as those working on the project work on them with my group, and I hope that others involved will as well.

hellbender

 

[AEtherfyre]

the Taken had enough to do anything except for physical detonate their surroundings. Fireballs were about the most destructive they could get in a physical sense.

Where, exactly, are all these assertions that the Black Company series is low magic coming from?

I can't claim to be an expert, but I'm quite sure that more than a few of the mages in the series could go well beyond mere fireballs as far as destructive power goes. Especially in some of the later books, it's very clear that "physically detonating" their surroundings was not only quite possible, but not even unusual for the higher powered mages. Limper has been mentioned, but I recall more than a few other incidents where serious destructive magic was used against troops - quite effectively, too.

As far as I can tell, the only reason armies were used at all was because they made effective shields for mages, and because even very powerful mages die if a few people manage to get the drop on them - again, Limper comes to mind. The problem with wizards in the Black Company is the same as in D&D, to an extent - there's only so much you can do at once, and it's all over if a fighter ends up next to you, determined to keep you from casting. I don't think D&D's magic system would have to be modified extensively at all, as far as combat magic is concerned - if anything, D&D's combat magic is weaker. I'd be more concerned with Teleport, and other transport spells, which seem to be much higher level, if they exist at all.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Where, exactly, are all these assertions that the Black Company series is low magic coming from?

It's not that the series is low magic, but that the world in which the series takes place is.

Consider: In the Jewel Cities, most priests were just hacks. Entrail readings, astrology, and other "scientific" methods were used. Until Soulcatcher arived to hire the Company, the Company themselves likely were as beafy as the region got.

In the Empire, magic wasn't studied openly. There was a "secret college" within the university that nobles sent their children, which implies that only those with the fundings could possibly obtain the required knowledge, and even then getting noticed and accepted weren't a given.

Take also into consideration that very few "light weights" ever make an appearance. Granted, One-Eye, Silent and Goblin are considered light weights compared to The Taken and the Shadowmasters, but when push came to shove, all three had some potency to them. Only Raven was known for "little tricks", having studied in the secret school within the Empire but not having pursued beyond this. In addition, One-Eye was around 200 years old by the time he expired of old age, so remaining a "light weight" says a lot about the rarity and potency of magic (i.e., very rare but very powerful).

Also throughout the series, the term "talent" is mentioned, implying some form of blood-gift or genetic trait is associated to magic beyond minimum Ability Scores. Murgen is an example of one character that had talent but was never formally trained until One-Eye identified his Astral Project-like dream-walking in Bleak Seasons. Murgen's wife was about as potent as her people got in regards to magic, and she did little more than prophecy the future and read tea leaves. By the opposite, Murgen's son is undeniably potent with the bam-bam at a young age, having mastered everything that One-Eye and Lady could teach him as well as picking up on things of his own (like mastering the shadows) at a very young age (and only his parents had any form of "leash" on him because they and they alone knew his True Name).

So, no, the series itself wasn't low magic, but the world was undeniably short on magic in and of itself.

There's a similar atmosphere found in The Belgariad, where few people have the talent necessary to wield magic. The series seems high magic because the story itself centers on a family of Sorcerers, but that the three of them (and their 3 or 4 Sorcerer friends) are around half of the total count of truly powerful spell-wielders in the world, and the majority of other spellcasters are the wanna-be's that make up Torak's priesthood. So, while magic is prevelant in the series, again the world itself is low magic.

Now, my take on BC magic would be focused on three forms: Random Oddities (like Murgen's Dream Walking), Minor Magics (like Raven had, being Cantrips at best), and High Magic (being based on Spell Seeds). All would be kept rare in some regard, with Minor Magics being difficult to obtain and High Magics the hardest to master.

Then there's always attrition. Someone that proves capable of handling Minor Magics catchs the attention of those capable of High Magics then recieve the "serve me or die" ultimatum. Random Oddities would only be dealt with if perceived as a threat or the individual showed promise towards becoming more.

Of course, that's just how I'd do it.

 

[AEtherfyre]

Yeah, that makes sense to me. It wasn't so much the statements that the world was "low magic" as the comments about reducing the power of magic that was irritating me, however. Yeah, only the major players in the world had magic - but that was what made them major players. Seriously, while not that many had access to magic, even the "lightweights" are capable of pulling stuff off that no D&D mage could - One Eye's spear comes to mind, as do some of the truely massive illusions he and Goblin managed to pull off. No illusionist in D&D could hope to make multiple, independent illusions of all of the Black Company's command, after all, and Goblin and One Eye did just that!

But, really, I don't see much point in running a world based on The Black Company unless you're going to have the major players involved one way or another - and that means that either the players will always be minor or secondary, or you're going to have to let them become heavyweights. Between the two, the first is probably the more realistic choice - it matches the feel of the world better, and it prevents imbalance between different class types. On the other hand, that means creating a detailed magic system, parts of which the players will never get to use - which will lead to a different set of frustrations.

Either way, though, you can't create the magic system on the assumption that high power effects aren't going to be used.

 

[mmu1]

Where, exactly, are all these assertions that the Black Company series is low magic coming from?

I know I for one used the term "relative to standard D&D magic". There are no Wishes, Miracles, Gates, Time Stops, Imprisonments, Astral Projections, Mazes, Planar Bindings, Simulacra, Antimagic Fields...

It's probably not a perfect way to describe it, though, a better one would be to say that in the Black Company universe, magic seems to be a lot more work than it is in D&D.
Spells take a lot more effort to prepare, much longer to cast, acquiring any magical proficiency clearly takes much longer, and has the side effect of twisting and driving insane just about everyone who practices it.

If you're planning to make a campaign world based on that, and allow people to play original characters that are independent of the events in the books, then the availability and power of magic is going to be much lower.
There is only a handful of extremely powerful mages, and they can't be everywhere at once... Which means that, even though while these mages are active they end up carving out empires for themselves, at any given time there is probably no significant magical presence in 99% of the inhabited world.

 

[hellbender]

<snip>

But, really, I don't see much point in running a world based on The Black Company unless you're going to have the major players involved one way or another - and that means that either the players will always be minor or secondary, or you're going to have to let them become heavyweights. Between the two, the first is probably the more realistic choice - it matches the feel of the world better, and it prevents imbalance between different class types. On the other hand, that means creating a detailed magic system, parts of which the players will never get to use - which will lead to a different set of frustrations.

Either way, though, you can't create the magic system on the assumption that high power effects aren't going to be used.

I would like to address this first point and respectfully disagree. The world of the Black Company has an endless amount of campaign material. Players could be a part of any of a number of factions, including one of the original Free Companies (just because Croaker read in the annals that the Black Company was the only remaining band, maybe that wasn't so) or they could work for one of the Ten who didn't really die in the Battle of Charm and work their machinations against the survivors of the Black Company. The setting is just as able to support adventure material as any others out there, and even more than some by existing d20 publishers.

I do agree on the magic system, and I am toying with variants that allow a different spell structure reflecting various magical spells and effects in the series.

hellbender

 

[hellbender]

I know I for one used the term "relative to standard D&D magic". There are no Wishes, Miracles, Gates, Time Stops, Imprisonments, Astral Projections, Mazes, Planar Bindings, Simulacra, Antimagic Fields...

It's probably not a perfect way to describe it, though, a better one would be to say that in the Black Company universe, magic seems to be a lot more work than it is in D&D.
Spells take a lot more effort to prepare, much longer to cast, acquiring any magical proficiency clearly takes much longer, and has the side effect of twisting and driving insane just about everyone who practices it.

If you're planning to make a campaign world based on that, and allow people to play original characters that are independent of the events in the books, then the availability and power of magic is going to be much lower.
There is only a handful of extremely powerful mages, and they can't be everywhere at once... Which means that, even though while these mages are active they end up carving out empires for themselves, at any given time there is probably no significant magical presence in 99% of the inhabited world.

Some spoilers for those who haven't read the books
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

There actually are Gates(opened during Taking to the lower planes), Planar Bindings (the Silver Spike was tossed inside an outer dimension to keep it from re-entering the world) Astral Projection (Murgen projects through time outside his body) and Antimagic Fields (the White Rose herself). Certainly these are different takes on DnD spells, but they exist in variant form in the Black Company world.

I agree with a poster in the OGL/D20 System forum when speaking of Conan as a game. There are high powered mages and a number of magicals devices and creatures. These often are on the fringes of the story, but just as often a part of the story (magical weapons, charms, flying carpets).

hellbender