d20 Blackmoor - Worth buying?

[Magus Coeruleus]

I'm a Mystaraphile who has DMed DA1-3 (DA4 Duchy of Ten didn't seem as exciting or worth the time to me versus other priorities) as part of a Wrath of the Immortals campaign that ran to completion (!) I understand there are the legal issues and of course Blackmoor is its own setting apart from Mystara, but is there any means by which us Mystara-Blackmoor fans can hope to get tasty info or suggestions on potential historical tie-ins and other connections based on the new info that will come out with this product?

Also, can someone tell me about this Expedition to the Barrier Peaks? I ran DA3 City of the Gods and am curious as to the connection. What game system, settings, etc.? By the way, City of the Gods was far too difficult for the listed character levels, in my opinion. The party I ran really shined not because they kicked butt because they managed to survive in what turned out to be an extraordinarily harsh place. Those robots are frickin tough!!!

Finally, I respect and accept the idea of the main setting being pre-tech stuff, but when the tech supplement stuff comes out, is it just going to be crunchy options or is it going to deal with historical events and how tech does (or could) eventually weave into the fabric of the setting in a way that is assumed for Mystaran history (e.g. the Great Rain of Fire of 3000 B.C.)? The Blackmoor in my mind started out with very little tech, as is evident from DA1 and the Comeback Inn, but eventually becomes suffused with it and manages to blow itself up. I know this is Dave's Blackmoor for itself and not Greyhawk or Mystara, but is there gonna be little love for those of us coming at it from different angles?

Thanks.

 

[DClingman]

Absolutely Magus. We will cover the technological implications of the technology, its roots and how it has evolved the society. There will also be a certain amount of the text designed to give players mechanics relating to new ideas.

Regarding Mystara, I feel your pain. We have a number of people who are Mystara fans on the mailing list and forums. We do not have any permission to do an overlap with Blackmoor. Personally, I don't feel really qualified to make the connection. I have read the stuff in books and online, but having Blackmoor dropped into Greyhawk or Mystara connections was not anything that Dave himself endorsed.

Perhaps, fans can help fill in the blanks. I would love to see what they would be capable of coming up with.

Dustin

 

[woodelf]

Your recommendation has been noted and rejected.

I would consider running Blackmoor with C&C (or even RC DnD), but not d20. It just doesn't fit IMO.

Um, Castles & Crusades *is* D20 System, isn't it? Modified from the D20SRD, sure, but still D20 System, yes?

 

[woodelf]

Well Blackmoor was originally designed for the original Dungeons and Dragons game, not d20. I own the original Blackmoor, as well as the first "DA" module for Expert DnD. That is why I would use a "rules lite" system that better captures the spirit of original DnD -- e.g. Rules Cyclopedia Dungeons and Dragons, or Castles and Crusades.

Actually, as i understand it, Blackmoor significantly predates original D&D, and even white-box D&D is considerably crunchier than the original playing of Blackmoor. In fact, from reading the history of the game and the setting in the Fantasy Roleplaying Gamer's Bible, i'd say the perfect system for the setting would be something more narrative, like Story Engine.

I guess i just see people arguing over Rules Cyclopedia vs Castles & Crusades vs D&D3E, and it feels like people arguing over which apple makes the best desert. IOW, the differences are so minimal, once you step back a bit and look at RPing as a whole, that it's really sorta splitting hairs. You may find the perfect apple crisp, but if you never consider other fruits, you'll never get yourself a banana split.

 

[woodelf]

My only comments on this thread are to give it a solid look. I won't give anyone the song and dance on why they should do this or that, but the crunch is well balanced (and limited) and in terms of the book's 240 page length, in the minority. The majority of the book details the setting, the people and the important historical events, locations and NPCs.

It has crunch, but it's also got a nice soft fluffy underbelly. Think of it as the best chewy granola bar you could find. Crunchy, but oh so gooood.

Dustin

Sing! Dance!

Seriously, there're just too many RPG products out there for me to properly evaluate every one out there on my own. So, please, tell me what's so cool about it!

 

[woodelf]

Similarly, just because the current incarnation of Blackmoor isn't exactly how you (whoever "you" is) envisioned it, doesn't mean it's a "betrayal". After all, the original creator of Blackmoor is behind it--i don't think anything that satisfies him as being authentic can really be questioned by anybody else. And as long as it is a sincere attempt to produce a quality work, labeling it a betrayal is just silly--failure, maybe, but i don't see why you'd assume there's malice involved.

[aside: Even if you can't stand the new GW, i'd still give the GMs book a look--some of the finest how-to-GM advice i've ever seen put to print, regardless of the genre, setting, or system you're playing. Right up there with Amber DRP.]

[rest deleted in order to keep on-topic]

 

[woodelf]

Neither of those supplements was the sort of thing you could call a published campaign setting. While each included rules from their parent campaigns, and Blackmoor had an adventure from that setting, neither of the books was primarily, nor even tangentially, a campaign setting as we think of them today.

To be explicit, the early "Blackmoor" and "Greyhawk" supplements are more analogous to things like Sorcery & Steam or Savage Species--a collection of new rules options, with some bits of setting woven into them--rather than Oriental Adventures or OGL Ancients (a heavily-themed set of new rules options, built around a specific new setting/genre).

Blackmoor is the earliest setting to be associated with what eventually became D&D, but beyond that distinction things get fuzzy. Some current settings may be older (though they were turned into RPG products later in their life than Blackmoor) - for example, I believe Ed Greenwood started the Forgotten Realms when he was a kid, long before anything like D&D existed. Best just to appreciate all of them on their own merits.

And, Tekumel probably predates any of those in conception, though not publication as an RPG. (But i think the first Tekumel novel might predate D&D.) For that matter, Jorune and Glorantha may be older than any of those--i don't know their pre-publication histories intimately.

 

[DMScott]

Also, can someone tell me about this Expedition to the Barrier Peaks? I ran DA3 City of the Gods and am curious as to the connection. What game system, settings, etc.?

Expedition to the Barrier Peaks was module S3 for AD&D (first edition). It was set in Greyhawk - the Barrier Peaks are towards the western edge of the Greyhawk maps - but not really closely connected to any setting. It featured a module from a spaceship that had crashed on a D&D world, and was populated by various creatures that were being transported and had escaped, malfunctioning robots, mutated humanoid plant-creatures, and so on. Really fun dungeon-style romp, IMHO.

As I understand it, it was originally a convention scenario used to introduce the Metamorphosis Alpha game, which featured colonists and survivors on a lost generation/sleep ship, the starship Warden. I have no idea if it's explicitly connected to Blackmoor, or if it just has enough common elements to make that sort of connection easy.

 

[Akrasia]

Um, Castles & Crusades *is* D20 System, isn't it? Modified from the D20SRD, sure, but still D20 System, yes?

In a very attenuated way, perhaps. It uses the d20 + modifies = beat the DC (or in C&C, TN) to succeed system.

But it has NO feats, no skills, a combat system without AoOs and 5-foot steps, no prestige classes, etc.

My impression is that it is what the Basic and Expert DnD rules would have looked like, had they used the d20 mechanic (roll high) to resolve everything, and had many more classes (and no "race classes").

 

[Akrasia]

...

I guess i just see people arguing over Rules Cyclopedia vs Castles & Crusades vs D&D3E, and it feels like people arguing over which apple makes the best desert. IOW, the differences are so minimal, once you step back a bit and look at RPing as a whole, that it's really sorta splitting hairs. You may find the perfect apple crisp, but if you never consider other fruits, you'll never get yourself a banana split.

The differences between RC (and C&C for that matter) versus 3.x DnD are not minimal. You could play through something like the original "Isle of Dread" module in 2-3 sessions in RC. It would take at least 5 sessions in 3.x. Resolving tasks, levelling up, and (most of all) combat take much longer in 3.x.

You are right in your comments about the "original" Blackmoor. Given that it eventually did become part of DnD, though, a plot-focused, rules-lite version of the game seems most appropriate for the setting IMO.