d20 future = Mechwarrior d20

Henry Hankovich said:
Short answer is, you can't. Except by falling or concussive damage (you can't "penetrate" the side of your computer by hitting it with a hammer, but it's not a good idea).

I'd say the whole tree-as-club thing was probably not a terribly great idea in the first place, assuming it ever did do a significant amound of damage. Probably best to nerf it or discard it.

More elaborate rules on hand-to-hand combat with mechs would effectively supplant it, anyway. Why try to pick up a tree when you can do more damage with a soccer kick...

Well, any tree, lamppost, or hatchet (ala the hatchetman), allows the mech to do kicking damage on the punch location table.

the problem is that the tree actually takes out armor. Whereas the force of modern weapons in the current state of the reimagining does not.

My thoughts are that the tree would just splinter (explode) upon impact. the lampost would just bend around the target. The axe would work. One of the things that is used commonly as a club is another mechs limb. The hatchetmans hatchet and the arm of a wolverine are both built using mech armor and materials. One would think (with my limited understadning of physics) that swinging mech armor against mech armor could actually do some damage. Both have the same hardness/density/toughness but one is moving at a good clip (probably faster than the speed of sound) and its force of impact combined with its hardness would be enough to damage the armor.

Aaron.
 

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jester47 said:
My thoughts are that the tree would just splinter (explode) upon impact. the lampost would just bend around the target. The axe would work. One of the things that is used commonly as a club is another mechs limb.
For what it's worth, the tree DOES splinter upon impact. It just takes out a decent size chunk of armor while doing so. One thing to keep in mind...there's still going to be a LOT of force with that swing. The tree may shatter, but remember that a mech needs both hands to swing a club and all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere. If a crane dropped a redwood on an M1, I doubt it's going to just bounce off.
 

Henry Hankovich said:
I'd say the whole tree-as-club thing was probably not a terribly great idea in the first place, assuming it ever did do a significant amound of damage. Probably best to nerf it or discard it.
True, especially when it has been noted that armor in BT even to the most powerful weapon devised. Using a tree as club would be treated as an improvised weapon.

A manufactured weapon like a mace or sword might do some significant damage and can withstand the impact of making a melee attack.

This assume the mech actually have a hand or two.
 

jester47 said:
My thoughts are that the tree would just splinter (explode) upon impact. the lampost would just bend around the target. The axe would work. One of the things that is used commonly as a club is another mechs limb. The hatchetmans hatchet and the arm of a wolverine are both built using mech armor and materials. One would think (with my limited understadning of physics) that swinging mech armor against mech armor could actually do some damage. Both have the same hardness/density/toughness but one is moving at a good clip (probably faster than the speed of sound) and its force of impact combined with its hardness would be enough to damage the armor.

Aaron.
Thing is, you don't have to "breach" the armor to do damage. For instance, if I smack you in the head, my hand doesn't actually penetrate, or even damage, your skull (assuming we're talking about cranial hits here, not facial bones). But I can still do 'damage,' because the kinetic energy of my hand will be transferred through the skull to the squishy brain within--which can damage itself by literally smacking against the inside of the skull, like a non-seat-belted passenger hitting the dashboard in a car crash.

The same with the computer + hammer analogy. I can probably bend the side of the computer case in with the hammer, but that's not what's going to stop the computer from working. It's going to be internal components that are damaged by the transferred energy of the hits.

Now, presumably interior components of a mech would be somewhat more robust than your average hard drive; but at the same time, there's still going to be an inherent fragility to them. Especially the "squishy" sitting in the cockpit. :)

I'd treat improvised hand-to-hand weapons in a similar manner as falling, or colliding with a barrier. I don't know how Battletech specifically handles those events, but it seems to me that being hit by a large, heavy object--regardless of whether the object is damaged or destroyed in the process--should have a high probability of knocking the mech over, stunning the pilot, or some other low-intensity type of damage; along with a relatively small chance of doing actual armor or internal-component damage (concurrent with denting or otherwise deforming the armor, adversely affecting its performance, internal components coming loose and smashing around, and so on).
 

Just to add to some other comments.

Something to remember is that Battletech armor is ablative in nature. It is designed to shatter on impact, spreading the damage out over a wide area rather then let the force of the blow penetrate to the interior. So even if the shot wouldnt normally penetrate, it's still going to cause armor damage.
 

Also worth noting is that an impact from something handheld, such as a tree, has sustained force, while a bullet looses all energy on impact. This is why bulletproof vests can stop bullets but only help somewhat against a knife.
 

Macbeth said:
Also worth noting is that an impact from something handheld, such as a tree, has sustained force, while a bullet looses all energy on impact. This is why bulletproof vests can stop bullets but only help somewhat against a knife.


I was thinking along these lines.

Aaron.
 

My thoughts on d20 Future...

I am fairly disappointed. I will wait until the SRD is out and strip mine it of anything good.

My plan as it stands now...

I am going to go with Mecha d20 and Grimm Tales with the Ultramodern Firearms. I plan on picking up d20 Military Vehicles so as to make the mech designs conform to the thoughts in the above discussion. Also I plan to use the DP9 Mecha Compendium for inspiration on making d20 versions of the Battletech mechs.

Blood and space sounds interesteing and I still need to compare that and the d20 Future space rules to see which one I like better.

Aaron.
 

Update-

I have been looking at the DP9 mecha data cards and it seems that with the mecha compendium I can look at the different DP9 game worlds mecha and get a good idea of where the BT Mechs stand. That is with Gear Krieg, Heavy Gear and the Jovian Chronicles and the stats from the 3025 TR, I think I might (maybe) get some benchmarks to work from. I am especially jazzed about the Gear Krieg because it is WWII era mecha. This will help a lot in the reimagining as WWII materials tech is a known quantity.

The hardback to the Compendium states that it includes mecha creation rules. I assume these are from the d20 mecha SRD? Or are they a method of creation that uses the SRD?

Aaron.
 

jester47 said:
The hardback to the Compendium states that it includes mecha creation rules. I assume these are from the d20 mecha SRD? Or are they a method of creation that uses the SRD?
DP9 uses the d20 Mecha SRD, also found in GOO's d20 Mecha Handbook.

HOWEVER, they offer their own classes.
 

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