d20 future, old guns and starting beyond level 1...

[hobgoblin]

if someone is reading both wizards and here, yes i have posted it over there to.

basically im getting some player noise over the wealth system when looking at older guns in high PL situations, specifically now that im about to introduce a new player into the group and have him start a character at the groups level.

thing is this that if the wealth bonus high enough, and the DC of the weapon is 14 or below, one can get it for free. the argument then goes that the new player, getting a higher wealth score at start, can make better use of this "free" zone then the players that started at first level did. therefor getting an apparently unfair advantage...

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

if someone is reading both wizards and here, yes i have posted it over there to.

basically im getting some player noise over the wealth system when looking at older guns in high PL situations, specifically now that im about to introduce a new player into the group and have him start a character at the groups level.

thing is this that if the wealth bonus high enough, and the DC of the weapon is 14 or below, one can get it for free. the argument then goes that the new player, getting a higher wealth score at start, can make better use of this "free" zone then the players that started at first level did. therefor getting an apparently unfair advantage...

Let's leave out "unfair" because that's an inherently charged term. The problem with the argument is it is comparing the characters at different points in time. Yes, the new character has an advantage over the existing characters at their respective chargens. But the desired result is to make the new character on par with the existing characters. The advantage the new character gains is for the very purpose of putting him on par. Presumably the existing characters have been acquiring items appropriate for their current level. The new character seems to have an unfair advantage because he is getting in a single moment what the existing characters had to earn over time.

What I'm not understanding from your question is how you think the discrepancy is impacted by "older guns" in a high-PL setting.

 

[hobgoblin]

they started out with about +9WB. this means that any guns under DC9 are free...

but as the new one starts out with something like +13WB, he can get better guns for free.

free meaning that it will not impact his wealth bonus what so ever as said item is both under the DC15 limit and under his wealth bonus, resulting in no reduction of wealth bonus on purchase...

as older tech gets a -2 DC pr PL below the game PL they are (and from what i understand, the D20 modern ones are PL5, so thats a -4) he can get a assault rifle without it effecting his wealth bonus, while they could not.

im kinda suspecting that the issue comes from comparing wealth to "gold" but i cant find the argument or example to indicate that said comparison is flawed. outside of the new guy getting less of a increase in wealth as the game goes on as well, but even then he gets somewhat better equipment from the get go.

note however that this is just 2nd level. as in, its not that big a jump from when they started.

and im using the rules in urban arcana to define how much wealth bonus the new one gets.

 

[Justin D. Jacobson]

Gotcha. The rules are supposed to emulate the acquisition of items and increase in wealth over level increases. I'd just worry about the final results: If the new character seems on par with the existing ones, fine; if not, tweak to taste.

 

[Pbartender]

they started out with about +9WB. this means that any guns under DC9 are free...

but as the new one starts out with something like +13WB, he can get better guns for free.

So... Did none of the other players take ranks in Profession? Did none of them take high starting wealth Occupations (like Celebrity, Dilletante, Doctor, Entrepeneur)? Did none of them make a Profession check when they leveled up?

If a player wanted to, at first level they could easily have a Wealth bonus of 12-18 or more (15-21, if they take Windfall twice as a feat).

I don't have Urban Arcana, so I don't now the rules you're using to determine the new player's Wealth... It's seems like it might be a little high, depending on how he built his character, but not excessively so.

Do the other players realize that the new character can buy "free" guns and equipment for all of them as well? I really don't think they have much to complain about here.

 

[hobgoblin]

well the book says to roll the wealth on first level, then add the wealth found in table 7-2 on page 204 of d20 modern.

and yes, they did all that. and now that i think about it, its mostly one person that is having an issue. and he kinda reacted to the wealth system from the moment they where supposed to get payed for a job (they are mercenary's) and he ended up rolling less dice on the wealth increase then the rest (i kinda overpayed them).

all in all i suspect its the randomness of the whole system thats gumming up the works here, but i cant find a good counterargument.

 

[Salcor]

To forgo this kind of problem I generally use the credit rule that is in The Game Mechanics Modern Players Handbook. It works out pretty good, because the is hard for their credit score to change, but easy for their wealth check to change. A quick example, if a person starts with a wealth score of 15, then their credit score is 15 as well. As they make wealth purchases their wealth score decreases. If they make a purchase higher than there credit score, it then affects there credit score. So a player starts out buy equipment and lowers their wealth to a 9, so they have a wealth of 9 and a credit of 15. As they make money from adventures, their wealth may rise up to their credit score. Unfortunately I don't really remember how to increase your credit score. But I think it makes a little more sense, and give the players the feeling that they have been making money. Because by now your players probably have raised their over all credit rating to the start wealth of the new player.


Salcor

 

[hobgoblin]

it appears that i need to reread every line of text in d20 future.

i just discovered a small box at the start of the equipment chapter that more or less nullify the small box at the start of the book. the DC is supposedly relative to the economy of the times, so any item thats normally available in that time period keeps its original price...

talk about tossing a fortress ship into the works...

 

[robberbaron]

If the existing players have wealths of +13 or more they have no cause for complaint. The new character is poorer than they are.

Tell them (or him, if it only one whingeing) to get a grip.