D20 Future: Ship Combat Experiences?

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I've found the following problems with the starships of d20 Future, and ahve been working to correct them...

• One: Ship size and hitpoints are messed up. There is no correlation between maximum HD and physical (not category) size. According to the rules, you could have some small ships with LOTS of HD.
• Two: Ship sizes, period, are just messed up. There is no room for Berserkers ala Fred Saberhagen, kilometer long death ships armed to the teeth. The size categories stop waaay to early. And lets not get into weapons platforms and space stations.
• Three: Weapon damages: Some of these weapons are WEAK! You'd be better off in some cases, firing 10th level Barbarians armed with keen greataxes at the enemy ships.
• Four: Armor, shields, gadgets, costs for building, building recipes are all bent out of shape.

I've corrected a lot of it in house, I'm still finishing up the document on building ships, and the Future Fun thread contains some serious capitol weaponry for your big player ships. Right here.

In our (my group and I) experiences, using the rules as written is the same as a grand melee involving tweaked out 20th level characters in a blank environment. Long, boring, and nonsensical.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

If you want, give Lucas some lesson about how a conjectural capital ship should be built.

If Lucas had done the ship designs for the d20 RPG, I would.

Brad

 

[wedgeski]

Meh. Blame it on Lucas.

The more closer you lean toward physics, the more people will question why that crashing starfighter managed to take down the ISD and causing it to crash unto the surface of the second Death Star in The Return of the Jedi.

If you want, give Lucas some lesson about how a conjectural capital ship should be built.

Who gives a crap about how a capital ship 'should' be built? Star Destroyers were damn cool, and you know it.

 

[Ranger REG]

Yeah, as cool as a '42 Ford Roadster.

 

[EvilPheemy]

The effectiveness of Capital ship weaponry relates to the size of the weapons. If a weapon capable of seriously damaging a Capital ship can be carried on a fighter-sized attack craft, then Carrier Vessels rule the spacelanes, much like modern Navys now-adays. (As well as WWII Naval Battles which had a decided influence on George Lucas, and is one of the indirect reasons that most of the Star Wars Warships are Carriers). On the other hand if weaponry capable of seriously damaging a capital ship can only be carried on Capital-sized vessels, then you have a more traditional "Big Gun Navy". In d20 Future, it's pretty easy to scale weaponry to the "feel" you wish to have for a given campaign.

Personally, I prefer my Capital Ships to have a bit of "staying power", so high HP totals add to the drama. Big ships get hit often, and I gather a sense of dramatic storytelling from the vessel advancing through hails of cannonfire, smoke trailing from it's hull, as opposed to having a big gun simply evaporate a giant vessel wholesale.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

The effectiveness of Capital ship weaponry relates to the size of the weapons. If a weapon capable of seriously damaging a Capital ship can be carried on a fighter-sized attack craft, then Carrier Vessels rule the spacelanes, much like modern Navys now-adays.

That is true, and I realize that the game, as is, is mostly set up so fighters can pose a threat to larger ships.

Then again, most carriers in SW d20 RPG don't carry nearly as many fighters as they could.

Personally, I prefer my Capital Ships to have a bit of "staying power", so high HP totals add to the drama. Big ships get hit often, and I gather a sense of dramatic storytelling from the vessel advancing through hails of cannonfire, smoke trailing from it's hull, as opposed to having a big gun simply evaporate a giant vessel wholesale.

Oh, me, too. And note that you don't see me designing ship combat systems, but I'd rather that the best option not be to mount racks upon racks of fighter missiles on a capitol ship.

Brad

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea, I've noticed that the Future system seems to be weighted toward carriers and wings of fighters. The way the rules are written, each "wing" of fighters basically functions as a single capital ship ... one "battery" attack (aid anothers from wingmen) with a big pool of hit point (ships acting as screens).

The difference between "capital" weaponry and "fighter" weaponry is an average of about 10 points, it seems. So a capital ship with a single battery and 3 wings of fighters becomes FOUR capital ships with FOUR attacks at full BAB. Where-as a single capital ship with 4 batteries gets one pool of HP, 1 attack at full BAB, 3 attacks at -5, and around +40 average damage per round.

I'd ALMOST go for the Wing-As-Ship plan if it weren't for the fact that capital ships would get torn apart by them. Each individual fighter has to be destroyed, yet has a FAR higher defense because of its smaller size and the diminishing-returns of ship systems are weighted in their favor. Added to that is the penalties to capital ship attacks compounded by iterative attack penalties and you get lumbering hit-points-on-the-hoof with almost no ability to fight back.

--fje

 

[Storyteller01]

I tend to agrre that 2min battle between ships seems to fit, but then again I use those as background ([to a pilot] your cruiser has just taken a torpedo hit, and is badly crippled. What do you do?).

I don't play d20 Modern or Future (yet), but I do play Dragonstar. If you want a non-published source, check Neo's web page. You can find a link on FFG's web site. His ship building setup allows the use of spinal weapons. Only the largest ships can use them,and they pull 5,000 to 20,000 hp per hit. Blackhole projectors, stellar coverters, the works... ('Starblazer''s Yamato, anyone? Maybe Robotech's SDF flagship?)

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I prefer the ship to ship combat rules from Traveller D20.