D20 Future (SRD) what's (not so) good and what can be improved (and how)?

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there C. Baize!

As well they should, in my opinion.

Thats your prerogative certainly, but if you are going to play in an epic/immortal campaign and wish to integrate elements Modern or Future the elements, then the current rules are unsatisfactory.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Mustrum_Ridcully!

Are you sure about the number?

Yes.

1.5 per points per size category or 1.5 times the previous damage? The latter doesn´t seem to fit.

Well technically it should be x2 every two size categories with the stagger in between.

eg. 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 2d8, 4d6, 4d8 etc.

Dagger: tiny size, 1d4, average damage 2.5
Shortsword: small size, 1d6, average damage 3.5
Longsword: medium size, 1d8, average damage 4.5
The average damage increases by one point for each category until now.
If you switch to large size, this changes a bit:
Greatsword: large size, 2d6, average damage 7
Greataxe: large size, 1d12, average damage 6.5
It seems more like an artifact that they ignore the d10, but at the later size categories, the damage increase becomes bigger (because usually two dice increase)
Huge Greatsword: huge size, 2d8, average damage 9
Gargantuan Greatsword: gargantuan size 2d10, average damage 11
Colossal Greatsword: colossal size 2d12, average damage 13

That seems very wonky from Gargantuan onwards. Should be 4d6 and 4d8 (for Colossal) respectively.

I think a good way to avoid excessive damage increases is to improve the damage die by 1 step per 2 Progress Levels.

That does seem to mess with the idea (already present in d20 Future) whereby current tech can be scaled down one size category (per Progress Level) and still deliver the same effect.

Every other 2 Progress Levels, you could improve the range (by 25 to 50 %), improve the magazine capacity (in case of firearms) or add a new special ability ...

So every other Progress Level no actual progress is made?

Only messing.

I think I see what you are getting at, but I would have taken such things as either standard features (such as magazine capacity) or trade offs (Power vs. Range etc.)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Cergorach!

I think so to, the problem being the equipment bonus to AC, the to low hardness and low hitpoints.

I personally think that there's a difference between weapons aimed at destroying/damaging vehicles and killing/hurting personel. Chances are that no person will survive a direct hit by a 120mm cannon, but the average 10d12 shot is survivable by the average 9th level fighter (or comparable Modern character class). Doubling the damage (20d12) would make the average shot survivable only by a 19th level fighter (or comparable Modern character class). Personally i would find throwing 20 dice a bit problematic, 2d12x10 would be preferable (maybe even 4d6x10).

The next step would be to increase the hardness and hitpoints comparibly, thus doubling. Hardness 20 to hardness 40 and hitpoint from 64 to 128 hitpoints.

But that would be a lot of unneccassary bookkeeping, why not reduce everything for vehicles by a multiplier of 10?

M1A2
Vehicle Hardness: 4
Vehicle HP: 13

120mm cannon
Vehicle Damage: 2d12 (or 4d6)

Vehicle grade weapons (everything that does vehicle damage) instantly kill all personel targets, unless the target is a pc or important npc (in that case multiply all vehicle damage by 10). All non vehicle weapons do not damage vehicles that have vehicle grade hardness (and vehicle grade hitpoints), unless it involves a pc or important npc (in that case every whole 10 points of normal damage translates into 1 point of vehicle grade damage). This way all vehicle combat is resolved quickly and vehicles become a lot thougher (as they should be).

I certainly think the x10 (which puts me in mind of both d6 Star wars and Rifts Megadamage) has potential. But of course you still need to get the damage right in the first place.

Regarding Vehicle Armour and Personal Armour I think if you had Armour in general, working for the most part like Damage Reduction, then what you could do is say that half the absorbed damage affects the target (wearing personal armour) as subdual damage. Unless it was a suit of powered armour.

 

[Falkus]

Chances are that no person will survive a direct hit by a 120mm cannon, but the average 10d12 shot is survivable by the average 9th level fighter

You're forgetting the massive damage rules of d20 modern. This will force just about any character to make a massive damage save.

 

[Knight Otu]

Are you sure about the number? 1.5 per points per size category or 1.5 times the previous damage? The latter doesn´t seem to fit.

Gargantuan Greatsword: gargantuan size 2d10, average damage 11

I think you are using the 3.0 damage increases in that table. Let's look at a warhammer, starting sized for medium creatures.

Medium - 1d8 - 4.5
Large - 2d6 - 7
Huge - 3d6 - 10.5
Gargantuan - 4d6 (titans wield those) - 14
Colossal - 6d6 - 21

Basically, once you hit 2d6 or 2d8, the next size category uses 1.5 times as many dice, and the one after that twice as many. It's not written out as well in the SRD, but if you can find the progression in the Improved Natural Attack feat description.

IMPROVED NATURAL ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: Choose one of the creature’s natural attack forms. The damage for this natural weapon increases by one step, as if the creature’s size had increased by one category: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.
A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

 

[Cergorach]

You're forgetting the massive damage rules of d20 modern. This will force just about any character to make a massive damage save.

A character of that level has a 75% or greater chance of making that roll.

 

[S'mon]

"Oh dear, I've been hit by a 120mm HEAT shell... and I'm only 9th level so I only have a 75% chance of making my MDC!"

This is why I think d20 Modern sucks. Either the hit from this enornous shell was solid, in which case it should be doing vastly more damage (over 100d6), or it just winged/near-missed the hero, in which case the low damage is ok but a Massive Damage Fort save is wholly inappropriate. Nobody, even in Hollywood movies, shrugs off tank shell hits because of toughness! If any kind of Save is appropriate, it would be a Reflex save _before damage is rolled_, to determine whether the hit was full-on or not. If full-on, then realistic damage (or just automatic death) should apply. If not full-on, _then_ some smaller amount of damage becomes appropriate.

So a possible workaround for heavy weapons vs d20 Modern heroes would be:

1. Ref save or die/take ridiculous amounts of damage
2. If make save, then take small but still substantial damage
3. Make MDC Fort save.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I think you are using the 3.0 damage increases in that table. Let's look at a warhammer, starting sized for medium creatures.

Yes, that might be true. But since D20 Modern predates 3.5, I would stay with the 3.0 for D20 Modern/Future based. Well, actually I would stay with the rules because the rules seem to be more balanced.
(Seeing how the D20 Modern weapon damage scales, I think they seem to use the 3.0 assumption: Tiny pistol 2d4, small pistol 2d6, medium pistol 2d8)

 

[S'mon]

(Seeing how the D20 Modern weapon damage scales, I think they seem to use the 3.0 assumption: Tiny pistol 2d4, small pistol 2d6, medium pistol 2d8)

It's a pity these d20 Modern handgun weapon damages are about twice what you'd expect from the damage ratings in D&D, where a hand crossbow does 1d4, a light crossbow 1d8 and a heavy crossbow 1d10. Although greatly overrating handgun effectiveness relative to other weapons is very common in RPGs; probably linked to the way they're depicted in movies where the mook *always* drops after being hit by a single 9mm round. This doesn't carry through nearly so much into rifle effectiveness; IRL rifles are a hell of a lot deadlier than pistols, but most RPGs flatten out the stopping-power curve considerably.

 

[Bagpuss]

I have always liked the idea of Space combat being like submarine combat.

It was like that in 2300ADs space combat rules, most of the battle was getting a target lock on your enemy, via sensors, while trying to avoid being detected yourself.

They also didn't have to worry about momentum since their ships moved via stutterwarp, tunnelling through space without actually moving.