D20 Games without AoO.

[Duncan Haldane]

If one cuts Aoo out of D&D then there are quite a lot of feats that become redundant:

 

[mkletch]

In games that focus on ranged combat (modern and futuristic weapons, for example), AoOs don't fit well. First of all, you cannot make an AoO if you are using a ranged weapon, second, using a ranged weapon when threatened provokes an AoO. So, it is really a question of genre and feel. The story-based nature of CoC is one example/justification. A super-hero d20 might also do away with AoOs. But for a fantasy or otherwise melee-heavy game, AoOs are an important core rule that keeps combat from getting too mechanistic.

-Fletch!

 

[slacker from shaggai]

Adding AoO's tends to favor the monsters in CoC:

Player: I raise my revolver and blast the...

GM: As you take aim, the Deep One rakes you across the face. Make a Fort save...

Disregarding the issue of complexity, using AoO's may make life even more difficult for the Investigators.

 

[nsruf]

In games that focus on ranged combat (modern and futuristic weapons, for example), AoOs don't fit well. First of all, you cannot make an AoO if you are using a ranged weapon, ...

There is a feat in D20 Fading Suns that allows you to make AoOs with pistols. So they could be integrated in a meaningful way with a modern/SF setting. Still better than simply disallowing certain actions, IMO, though I feel that AoO in CoC really aren't necessary.

 

[PenguinKing]

In games that focus on ranged combat (modern and futuristic weapons, for example), AoOs don't fit well. First of all, you cannot make an AoO if you are using a ranged weapon, second, using a ranged weapon when threatened provokes an AoO.

There's a fix for that; Shadow Chasers and (presumably) d20 Modern give firearms a 10-foot "reach" for purposes of determining threatened areas, and allow you to make AoOs with them.

- Sir Bob.

P.S. Nih!

 

[Sigmund]

In games that focus on ranged combat (modern and futuristic weapons, for example), AoOs don't fit well. First of all, you cannot make an AoO if you are using a ranged weapon, second, using a ranged weapon when threatened provokes an AoO. So, it is really a question of genre and feel. The story-based nature of CoC is one example/justification. A super-hero d20 might also do away with AoOs. But for a fantasy or otherwise melee-heavy game, AoOs are an important core rule that keeps combat from getting too mechanistic.

-Fletch!

I feel AoO fit fine even in games with mostly ranged combat, because there are still melee fights, and the AoO still would make the fights more tactical. That they might not come into play as often in SW or SC as in DnD doesn't mean they aren't useful. Especially in SW, there's a whole class of characters that could make very effective use of AoOs (Jedi Knights). Also, I could see SC games centered around heavy cinematic martial arts style action as well. IMO using a ranged weapon in melee range should draw an AoO. I guess I'm saying I prefer having the option of performing an action that might get me injured than outright being forbidden (such as moving through threatened areas in SW). AoO are one of the greatest additions to the game with 3e IMO, making tactics and teamwork much more important in a fight than the old rules ever did. For example, say my character in SW (who's the group tech-head) needs to get to a control panel and shut down a whatchamathingie so it doesn't do something bad, and I have only two rounds to accomplish this. Unfortunately, a badfella is guarding the door to the control room (controlling access to the doorway with his threat area). the way the system works now I have to stop as soon as I enter his threat area, and can only 5ft-step my way through. Using AoO, the Jedi could draw his attack (use up the baddy's AoO), allowing me to run by and work my mojo on the misbehaving system (praying, of course, that the baddy doesn't have combat reflexes since I'm a wuss ).

In actual practice, our group hasn't found AoO to be needlessly complicating at all.

I had heard that AoOs were going to be included in the revised SW and I'm glad to hear it.

 

[Morrus]

Moved to d20 System Games.