D20 Linguistics

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

As I'm trying to figure out exactly how much space each topic would need, it occurs to me that two more topics might be important:
pidgins and creoles
naming conventions
I'm trying to make this as applicable to in-game use as possible without adding crunch just for the sake of crunch. I'm having a hard time envisioning why anyone would play a character with the "Linguist" Prestige Class, but a Knowledge (linguistics) skill might get one or two ranks from one or two players and the Decipher Script skill certainly won't go untouched. I might discuss how to create an accent for those Roleplayers who do a lot of in-character dialogue, but I suppose I see this as primarily a DM's resource, particularly applicable to world-building and adventure creation. What thoughts do you all have?

 

[barsoomcore]

Yeah, I'd want the DM's tool.

Leave the "Accents" for the "d20 Drama Queen" supplement.

(not meaning to be insulting. Unless you're a drama queen.)

In an RPG, lots of things that are TRUE aren't necessarily IMPORTANT.

For example, it's TRUE that rotating crops helps soil productivity. It's not the slightest bit IMPORTANT in most campaigns, but that doesn't mean it isn't TRUE.

Many things that are TRUE about linguistics aren't necessarily very IMPORTANT to RPGs.

Grammar is probably one of those.

What do DMs REALLY need? More than anything else, they need good names that provide some flavour and realism to their world. They don't need entire linguistic systems -- they need cool names that sound reasonable and give a sense of place and time to their players.

If you're playing on Barsoom, for example, it's a no-brainer to know that Phelan O'Breen comes from Shaer, that Tulan Kith comes from Kish, that Johandaraj Joh comes from Hinsua, that Antigo del Torres comes from Saijadan, and that Kari Morisawa comes from Nahan. That's largely because I steal all my language characteristics -- Shearic is Gaelic, Saijadani is Spanish and Kishak is whatever Edgar Rice Burroughs made up for his Barsoom novels. But the principle holds -- names are far and away the most visible representation of language in a campaign setting.

The other extremely helpful thing would be a system for relating languages to each other -- so as to provide logical bonuses or penalties as applicable. It doesn't actually matter much how the internals of each language works -- most DMs aren't going to want to actually invent full-blown languages -- it just matters how one relates to the other.

Kishak has a similar vocabulary to Calegrian, but the vocabulary has been completely altered through exposure to Naridic culture. Calegrian-speaking characters can't understand Kishak with all its new words, but to Kishak speakers, Calegrian sounds sort of like very old-fashioned speech with a weird accent.

Stuff like that.

But really, what I'd want are lots of examples, lots of ideas, lots of fun things for me to chuck into my campaign and make it cooler than it already is.

 

[Matt Black]

I'm a fairly active gamer, but an extremely selective game book purchaser. Still, I would pay money for such a book, if it were done well. Most importantly, it would have to be a practical, useful guide, rather than an abstract essay. I'm particularly interested in the application of linquistics to language and name generation.

 

[Algolei]

Someone creating this would, in my opinion, need to show a strong knowledge of both linguistics and RPGs. For me to consider reading or purchasing this, the person writing it should have at least a degree in linguistics and a strong background in RPG writing or design. I know this sounds a bit elitist, and that’s probably true. There are enough subjects that gamers are exposed to where they are misinformed that we do not need another.

This is a good point. And yet, I disagree. If we waited for perfection we would never find it. Most current RPG books deal with things apparently beyond the writers' expertise--just look at Deities and Demigods for an example.

Sometimes "good enough" is actually good enough.

 

[Cunniligue Linguist]

To The Man

Oh man...this sounds great. I definatly think you shouldn't give it away for free. This will be some time consuming work that needs fruit for your labor.

I love the idea.

Your Colleague,

Frank Lavis

 

[GuardianLurker]

The choir sings

Gah! I'd pay $5 sight unseen for *any* book that fixed Speak Language. Starting with the flippin' name!

<rant>
Apparently the skill only lets you *speak* THE language. There isn't more than one, and it doesn't have any written form. It doesn't have a name - or at least not a written one. (wheels spinning, insane babbling begins...)
</rant>

I'd raise that another $10 if it actually addressed language trees in 3.x in a way that was compatible with existing rules.

Throw in the rest of what you're talking about, and I'd by it as a hardback.

I'd say for me the top priorities are:
1) Fix the language skill so it deals with language trees.
2) Address socio-linguistics.
3) Integrate Decipher Script, Comprehend Languages, Tongues, and Read Magic so they all make sense.

Everything after that is *gravy*.

 

[Cunniligue Linguist]

Check this out guys...

This guy is a colleague of mine in CSUC linguistics program and I can definatly say he is a linguist and gamer at heart. Shoot, he's been recruiting me to play d20 for sometime now and when the semester gives me a break I'm there. This book idea of his will probably impact all aspects of D&D. Imagine being able to make your own language for your character to speak. Or imagine learning about grammar and language thru gaming. Now that's freakin' cool!

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Gah! I'd pay $5 sight unseen for *any* book that fixed Speak Language.
I'd raise that another $10 if it actually addressed language trees in 3.x in a way that was compatible with existing rules.

Good point, GL. The idea that all languages are genetically equidistant, even in D&D, is just silly, and fixing that will require no more than an example language tree and some DC guidelines for Decipher Script. Consider it done.
Though I had never considered the issue before, the Speak Language skill probably does need a better name. I'll figure that one out, too.

I'd say for me the top priorities are:
1) Fix the language skill so it deals with language trees.
2) Address socio-linguistics.
3) Integrate Decipher Script, Comprehend Languages, Tongues, and Read Magic so they all make sense.

Everything after that is *gravy*.

What exactly are you looking for in a discussion of socio-linguistics? Pragmatics? Linguo-cultural domination (like the Norman Invasion)? Politeness Conventions? Idioms? I agree these are all important, but they also threaten a tangential can of worms, and I'd like to take a full-round action to aim for exactly the thesis that will be of most utility in the most folks' games.

 

[shadow]

I've been considering writing a book (or at least a fairly sizable document) on Linguistics for use with D20 games, particularly D&D, and I want to know how much interest this would generate. The work would almost certainly be free, rather than distributed through a publisher.

I would be interested in contributing to a d20 Linguistics book!

Someone creating this would, in my opinion, need to show a strong knowledge of both linguistics and RPGs. For me to consider reading or purchasing this, the person writing it should have at least a degree in linguistics and a strong background in RPG writing or design. I know this sounds a bit elitist, and that’s probably true. There are enough subjects that gamers are exposed to where they are misinformed that we do not need another.

I have a BA in Linguistics, and I will be starting a graduate program in Applied Linguistics next semester. I am also a gamer. As such, I feel qualifiied to contribute to a d20 linguistics project.
Anyway, give me a PM or email, and let's get something started!

 

[Incenjucar]

Mind you, I'm all for the idea. As a writer, more than a gamer, I'd love a book on making up languages. I'm just not entirely confident it can be done in a satisfactory manner that's likely to pay off. Names, as someone mentioned, are probably going to be commonly-used, and the idea of the trees and such is certainly good, but language -itself-, spoken or written, isn't, by my guess, going to have a major play.

Only so many DMs are going to spend weeks developing a language which the players will then say, "In DMish, I say, '...'" And only so many DMs are going to actually sketch out the runes for something, rather than just say "You see runes in Elvish".