[d20 Modern] Abrams tank cannon...150 ft!!!???!!!

[kreynolds]

What kind of rediculousness is this? A range increment of 150 feet!? For a cannon!!?? I realize that battlemats are only so big, but sheesh.

What should the range increment for the cannon actually be? I don't mean in real-life terms. I mean a better value for game terms.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Throw a range-finder on there that negates some, most, or all of your range penalties and you're good to go.

Otherwise, I suppose if you're just eye-ballin' it, 150 feet for your first range band is not bad. 50 yards? Up to 100 yards at -2? That really seems reasonable to me.


Wulf

 

[Merova]

Afghanistan d20

What kind of rediculousness is this? A range increment of 150 feet!? For a cannon!!?? I realize that battlemats are only so big, but sheesh.

Hi all!

In Afghanistan d20, the stats for the 120mm turret gun on the M1A2 Abrams lists a range of 650 ft. I think this Af20 gives better simulation of range, but it forces combat into three modes of conflict, long/med/short, thereby slowing down combat.

For instance, in a dramatic combat where the PCs need to take a position while large scale combat takes place around them, the need to consider various ranges requires intensive range and movement measurement. For instance, T-54 turret gun (range = 400'); AK74 (range = 100'); Desert Eagle (range = 25'.) Good simulations, but what a pain!

My advice: unless your group has a love for miniature wargaming, use d20M's range. It'll make combat much smoother.

Thanks for reading.

---Merova

 

[Crothian]

I don't think it's that bad. It can still be fired up to 1500ft or 500yards.

 

[Victim]

500 yards? Isn't the real life range over a kilometer?

 

[Crothian]

500 yards? Isn't the real life range over a kilometer?

Probably, but as seen in the first post we aren't that concerned with real life values.

 

[Victim]

True, but I don't see the problem with giving the tank a huge range, but then using the difficulty of spotting small targets like people to limit combats to playable ranges. The distance modifier on spot checks and the narrow view ports on the tank would probably make it pretty easy to close with. The tank won't be taking range penalties when the group gets within effective range of their weapons, but oh well.

Also, the much shorter ranged machine guns on a tank will probably be the prefered weapon against infantry.

 

[Pagan priest]

Consider this little tidbit of info:

Extended Range Munition [ERM]
XM1007 Tank Extended Range Munition (TERM)
Extended Range Munition [ERM] is a new concept (endorsed by USAARMC) for extending the battle space beyond the current 3 to 4 KM max. line of sight range, by allowing engagements beyond line of sight to more than 8 KM. It exploits the ability of the Scout vehicle to acquire and designate targets; the Digitized Communication technologies to pass targeting information, in real time, to the maneuver commander or shooter, and smart munitions technologies to provide a munition capable of being fired from a 120MM tank gun at extended range non line of sight targets.
The Tank Extended Range Munition (TERM) is a new 120 millimeter munition for the M1A2 Main Battle Tank, that will extend the maneuver commander's battlespace beyond line of sight (BLOS) to more than 8 kilometers. TERM exploits the capabilities of the Future Scout and Cavalary System vehicle to identify and illuminate BLOS targets to pass digitized targeting information, in real time, to the tanker. Using brilliant technologies TERM will enable the tanker to destroy high value moving targets at more than twice the current battlespace. TACOM-ARDEC is currently exploring multiple concepts to meet user performance requirements.

Which I got from here:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/120.htm

If you go with 1,000 foot range incriments, every thing should be just fine. In the chase scale of 1 inch equals 50 foot, that's 20 inches on the gaming table, per range incriment. If you aren't currently in the chase scale, then treat everything as being in the 1st range incriment... 200 inches is almost 17 feet!

The other thing to remember is that the M1 Abrams has all sorts of nifty gear for making sure that each round actualy hits what it is suppose to hit, stuff like stabalization so there is no penalty for firing on the move, thermal imagery so that smoke or darkness do not provide conceilment, laser range finder and ballistic computer to cut out range penalties...

And, of course, let's remember that the hardness and hit points should both be higher.

 

[hong]

500 yards? Isn't the real life range over a kilometer?

In real life, an M1A1 or any contemporary MBT can "reach out and touch someone" (score a kill with the first round) out to a range of 5 kilometers or more. However:

- That's against a tank-sized target. Against human-sized targets, and where the intention isn't just to make them go to ground, you can expect the range to be a lot less.

- This is a game, and moreover one that emphasises fights between individual people, not vehicles. While it may be great fun to take someone down from two klicks away, it probably won't be as much fun to have it done to you. Not to mention that it makes a spectator out of everyone else at the table who isn't involved in crewing the tank. (The same also applies to why sniper rifles have nerfed ranges.)

 

[Morgenstern]

*flip-flip-flip*

The 120mm cannon in Spycraft has a range increment of 1,100 ft. 'Course in Spycraft we discourage shooting at people with tank rounds (it's -10 to hit people and animal, no penalty for shooting at vehicles and buildings). Damage is a bit different too, with the cannon doing 8d8, and an extra +55 points if you roll a threat while shooting a vehicle or building. It lets you blow holes in walls and shred station wagons pretty quick, while letting agents stumble and crawl away from a 'near miss'. Sometimes .