d20 Modern Cybernetics Idea....opinions anyone?

[digitaldark]

Most cybernetic systems have a limiting factor in how much a character can actually have.. So I've decided to have one in the system I am creating for my website...and I want to know what you guys think of this idea..

Basically a character's cybernetic threshold is equal to their constitution score. Each piece of cybernetic will have a "Constitution" cost. This cost would not technically affect the character's constitution, however, until the total "Constitution" cost of all of the character's cyberware equals his cybernetic threshold.

Once the threshold is reached, the character's type switches from its current to Construct, and looses all racial abilites of its original race as well..

If the Threshold is exceeded, then the character must make a Will save vs DC equal to the total "Constitution" cost of all their cybernetics - each day or their mind is destroyed and they become a Cyberdeath (a new undead/construct creature I am working on as well)

lemme know what you think...cause its the d20 Modern Community I'm makng it for..so your opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The approach as you describe it doesn't have much of an actual cost.

Why not have the cybernetic implants *actually* reduce CON? That would be an effective limiter.

An alternative (which I used in my home-grown sci-fi rules on my website some time ago) is to reduce Cha... as he gets more cybered up he becomes more and more divorced from humanity.

However you do it, I think an incremental cost would be the way to go. So every little bit of cyber-stuff gives a real cost right now.

Cheers

 

[Byrons_Ghost]

Hm, I don't have d20 Modern, but I'd be interested to see the system when it's done. Here's what I'm thinking based on what you posted....

One of the things that always bugged my about cyberware games such as Shadowrun or Cyberpunk was that there was only one stat around which the cyberware limits were based. This IMO led to the entire system being minmaxed around that one stat. A lot of times it was some sort of "personality" stat because the limit was supposed to be the debilitating psychological effects that the ware caused the person.

Anyhow, I think if you base it just on con you're going to have a world where everyone (or at least the PCs) have ridiculously high CON scores in order to get their warez. Of course, this will present a problem with any of the stats.

If you want to base it on ability scores, I'd go with multiple ones, or maybe even all of them, using the Psionics rules as a model. Different ware could call for a different ability minimum- STR for exoskeletal frames or implanted armor, INT for CPU cowboy tech, WIS for heightened senses & multiprocessing, DEX for wired reflexes, CON for massive replacements such as limbs, and CHR for social type things such as pheremones, or whatever.

The only problem with that is, it doesn't always make sense (wouldn't a person with low CHR want to get the attribute boost?) and there's some overlap. If you need a high DEX to get wired reflexes, then your DEX just becomes even more boosted.

Another option would be to base it on character level and ignore any kind of IC acquisition stuff. In this scenario it would work basically like extra feats, which everyone gets at the same time. The characters can't get extra without special help (such as having stuff implanted by the military). Either they save up to buy new ware every so often, or it takes them a while to recover from surgery and interface with their new stuff. Either way, they'd get a new piece every two or three levels. Again, the limiting factors would look a lot like feats, with level, ability scores, BAB, and the like being factors.

Don't know if all this was the sort of thing you were looking for or not, it's just coming off the top of my head. On a related topic, does anyone know what sorts of systems games like Digital Burn are going to use?

 

[The Black Kestrel]

Hmm... cybernetics, metal is better than meat. That being said I prefer a charisma drain or perhaps a new empathy or humanity stat like the sanity stat from CoC, except it's based on charisma when you hit 0 bang cyberpsychosis hits and you go crazy.

I don't like the idea of basing a system like I described off of multiple stats. It just doesn't make sense to me rules wise nor does it keep with the genre's flavor. Note that I don't multiple stats for psionics either, I chucked that out and use a house rule that I find works geat.

Thread hijack over. On a final note the Star Wars splat book coming out next year will have cybernetic rules in it.

 

[digitaldark]

If you want to base it on ability scores, I'd go with multiple ones, or maybe even all of them, using the Psionics rules as a model. Different ware could call for a different ability minimum- STR for exoskeletal frames or implanted armor, INT for CPU cowboy tech, WIS for heightened senses & multiprocessing, DEX for wired reflexes, CON for massive replacements such as limbs, and CHR for social type things such as pheremones, or whatever.

Thats a good idea in there....maybe have the obvious stuff give a penality to Charisma.. (like a cyberarm for instance) in addition to the con...


I am thinking about having it actually take down con too...cause it would be similar to a lot of ability drains that turn you into another creature then..

 

[EarthsShadow]

If my character lost permanent CON points for putting in cyberware, then count him/her out because I don't think that would be accurate, unless I am mistaken in the interpretation proposed above.

A possible easier way of discerning it is to say that everyone has a Cybernetic Threshold of let's say 8 +/- CON modifier. I picked a number so of course it wouldn't have to be this way. Each piece of cybernetic hardware would of course cost some CT, and when it reaches certain levels then bad things could happen to the person, like negatives to social interractions or possibly needing to make a save of some kind if the cyberwear is missused or something like that. I don't know exactly what you have in mind, but you could also have it that when a person first gets cybernetics they have to spend some of their skill points to get used to having the cyberwear in his/her body and it could represent the time it took to train with it. If they don't spend skill points to learn,then they suffer negatives when trying to use it.

Of course, you can also wait to see how Digital Burn looks and go from there.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Making mod's stat limited is not ideal

I agree that a limiting factor is needed. However, I am not convinced that the limiting factor should be a stat. Since Shadowrun also has BioGenetic mods (its in one of the source books), lets assume that the mods affect the same stat.

What we can do is assume that all implants of any sort should count against a Rejection Threshold. When the threshold is crossed, a few things should happen.

1) The character should suffer Stat damage to Str, Dex, and Con for every day that he is beyond the rejection threshold.

2) The character should be unable to heal naturally until he is brought back below the rejection threshold.

3) Each implant must have a description of what happens when a character goes beyond the rejection threshold. For say, titanium bone lacing, nothing should happen. For an implant that displays info (a Heads Up Display), it should just stop working. For a sensory mod (night vision), the affected sense should stop functioning (if you are in rejection and have an artificial eye, you go blind in the relevant eyes). For an artifical heart, well, death seems appropriate.

Some other things to consider:

The rejection threshold should be the same for all characters. Otherwise, its like saying a character with a high Int can use more magic items then someone with a low int.

As for the incremental cost, you can have each implant cause a permanant penalty of an appropriate sort until it is successfully removed. Unsuccessful removal (failed skill check from the surgeon) will cause the penalty to become permanant. This will cause your players to pick their gear carefully.

The penalty could be any one of the following:

- penalty to ability / skill checks
- Save penalty
- AC penalty
- Movement rate reduction
- permanant status affliction (slowed, fatigued,)

A penalty of -2 to all Str checks is a pretty harsh deterent. A penalty of -2 to any Hide or Move Silently Check is less of a deterent.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Forcegypsy]

For ideas you might want to check out the current Dungeon/Polyhedron. In the Mecha Crusades campaign there is a cyborg Advanced Class. Maybe it will help you to see how someone else has done it.

 

[Samnite]

Why not try something like Spellware in Dragonstar. Basically, you get a magic itemish thing implanted in you. They cost money and you have to have the proper tools to implant them. The key though, is that instead of the spellcaster paying the experience points, the implantee does.

If thjere's one thing people don't want to give up its experience points and thus, they make a great limiting factor. And in terms of logic, we can always chalk the penalty up to the lack of experience with a new bodypart.

Failing that, there's always the cyborg in mecha crusade. If you think about it, you basically just spend experience points to get cyberware with him too... only you get a level along with it!

 

[tensen]

Why limit it through a stat? Not really effect use of the d20 system.

The idea of perhaps a wearing goes crazy based on having cyberware should be a saving throw per each item being added. With the target number being increased by a certain number with each item being added.

And cyberware would effective become part of a person, making them more powerful. The way d20 handles that is an increase in effective character level.

Between the two of that it should handle the effects and keep it within the standard of how d20 operates.