[d20 Modern] Let the gnashing of teeth begin!

[EarthsShadow]

I will like both...

Both are going to be good games in their own respective game systems. Spycraft will succeed in some areas better than d20 Modern, and vice versa. The way I see it, if you want to play espionage games, play Spycraft. If you want to play anything else modern, play d20 Modern. This basically means that more people will play d20 Modern because it will have more options available to it.

I will use it for a gritty Darkmatter game and combine some elements of Call of Cthulu (but not all, I don't want to kill all the PC's before 2nd level), and run a campaign that Spycraft, with all its options, is too limited in scope for me to run.

I say bring both on, play both and enjoy both games for what they each are. And I am in full support of VP/WP and do away with HP, which I will automatically switch into my d20 Modern games.

 

[Psion]

As far as product support is concerned, although Spycraft might have 4 or 5 supplements out, at least two (The Archer Foundation & Shadowforce Archer)are of little use to those not interested in playing in a non-SFA game.

I soundly disagree. The Archer Foundation might not be useful (don't have it yet), but SFA would CERTAINLY be useful... it has lots of game material like new feats, psionics, and magic for spycraft.

In addition, the GC screen/character sheets are grossly overpriced and of very poor quality.

Agree, but who really needs it in the first place?

The Modern Arms Guide is only good for use with Spycraft rules because of of the whole WP/VP damage scheme (that problem rears it's ugly head where you least expect it).

Again disagree. I could see using most or all of those rules in other d20 system games. The only thing it would be missing is crit multiples, and that is easy enough to extrapolate from what similar weapons have in the game of choice.

That said, wasn't the initial point how well spycraft itself is supported? So how does "how well Spycraft supports other material" bear on anything?

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Salutations,

This page contains information on other products coming out for Spycraft:

http://www.spycraftrpg.com/products.html

It seems to be doing pretty well for itself.

FD

 

[1hit1der]

Vanilla d20 already has Massive Damage threshold rules. If you take more than 50 damage you have to make a fortitude save or die (not disabled or dying).

Will this still aply to d20 Modern?

Personally I prefer Massive Damage fort saves over VP/WP.

A good house rule would be to take Con damage of the multiplier amount even if you succeed at the fort save.

 

[bwgwl]

That said, wasn't the initial point how well spycraft itself is supported? So how does "how well Spycraft supports other material" bear on anything?

i think a lot of people (myself included) are interested in running modern-setting campaigns that aren't espionage/superspy related at all.

so for us, how well Spycraft supports itself is immaterial. it's just too limited in scope and not generic enough to support the types of campaigns we want to run.

from what i've seen so far, d20 Modern is everything i'm looking for in a modern-setting system. i love the generic classes because they don't make any assumptions on what type of game i'm running. if i used Spycraft, i'd have to ditch all the departments/classes anyways and build up my own stuff from scratch. with d20 Modern i don't have to -- no matter what kind of campaign i'm running.

i'm even thinking of using d20 Modern's generic classes in my next fantasy campaign, because i want to do something that uses a different template than what the normal D&D classes provide.

 

[Psion]

so for us, how well Spycraft supports itself is immaterial.

That's all well and good, but wasn't the point being argued. The assertion was that "Spycraft won't have good support", but then the point was brought up that the MAG won't support d20 modern or other d20 products. Well duh, the point wasn't how well spycraft products support d20 modern or anything else, but how well Spycraft ITSELF is being supported, and the point is: it is being supported rather well.

 

[Desdichado]

Well my point (if that's the one being debated) wasn't exactly how well Spycraft will be supported. It's more along the lines of d20 Modern will be the standard and thus all 3rd party support will be for d20, not Spycraft. I think there will be a lot of overlap between the two, but Spycraft will only ever get Spycraft specific support from AEG while d20 Modern will get all kinds of support from all kinds of publishers for all kinds of games.

Therefore, if Spycraft is exactly your thing, than great, you've got your Spycraft support. But if you want to play something modernish, and are on the lookout for something to snag, or some setting to borrow, or what have you, then you really need d20 Modern to take advantage of all that support, not Spycraft.

 

[Corinth]

Originally posted by 1hit1der
Will this still aply to d20 Modern?

Yes. Go to the game's website, read the preview material and cruise the forums.

 

[Ranger REG]

Vanilla d20 already has Massive Damage threshold rules. If you take more than 50 damage you have to make a fortitude save or die (not disabled or dying).

Will this still aply to d20 Modern?

Personally I prefer Massive Damage fort saves over VP/WP.

A good house rule would be to take Con damage of the multiplier amount even if you succeed at the fort save.

That's what I said (see top of page 2 on this thread) based on Charles Ryan's statement on Wizards' message board (he's co-author of d20 Modern).

 

[Luddite]

To say the Spycraft is only good for Jame Bond/Superspy type of espionage games is like saying that DnD is only good for High Fantasy Dungeon Crawling.

At this point, I am not realy sure which is better. d20 Modern is not out yet. However, from what I have seen in CoC and the various Polyhedrons, I feel that Spycraft will be the system that I will prefer for any non-Fantasy genre. Why? Half Actions vs Partial/Standard/Move-Equivlent. I also like how it deals with Multiple Attacks per action.

Do-ing "realistic" (aka lower power) style is as easy as doing the non-class of CoC with Spycraft Rules. Add bonus feats to vary the power.

-The Luddite