d20 Modern Questions

[molonel]

Hi. I've been lurking here for a while, and occasionally asking a question here and there. The time is finally approaching! I am going to wrap up my D&D campaign at 21st level, and then I am going to run a d20 Modern campaign (my first).

So you'll probably see a little more of me around here as I ask questions.

Here's a couple:

1. Is there any reason NOT to use the D&D 3.5 revision for Combat Reflexes, which allows you to make as many AoO's against someone as you are allowed, and they inspire, but only one for movement per round per target? Or has this correction appeared in d20 Modern in any errata?

2. While d20 Modern is certainly built for multiclassing, and encourages it, and streamlines the process, I'm curious if it seems odd to anyone else that Close Combat Shot, which is the first special ability that a Gunslinger gains, isn't more common. The soldier doesn't get it. Many of the combat builds in Blood and Guts, which is an extraordinarily well-written supplement I am going to use, nevertheless don't include it. Should I include Close Combat Shot as a feat? Because it seems rather silly to encourage a one-level Advanced Class dip just to gain the ability that most combat-trained advanced classes should have, anyway.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

1. You can houserule anything you want, but WotC hasn't retconned Combat Reflexes to 3.5 standards yet. In many ways, d20M is 3.25 ... some stuff that appears in 3.5 is there, some stuff not. It's a simple "houserule" if you want to do it, but I figure they don't find it a big enough deal to try in any way to disseminate that information to the player-base in an official capacity.

2. It's a known design factor for d20Modern in general that they wanted to maintain parity between ranged and melee combat. Melee combat generally deals "more damage" while ranged combat ... gets all sorts of guns, grenades, etc etc. This aspect (ranged weapons provoking AoOs) is one of the balancing points. Thus, Gunslinger is the only class that gets an ability to attack in a threatened space with a medium or smaller firearm.

If everybody in the party decides to take 6 ranks in Sleight of Hand to get the ability, then maybe your group has a particular play-style that makes turning the ability into a feat feasible. Recognize that it directly plays with the chosen balance of the game. I, myself, doubt that any of my players would take a 1-level dip in Gunslinger for Close Combat Shot, nor do I think that every class with skill in firearms should have that ability.

--fje

 

[hobgoblin]

while being no gun expert, or for that matter a close combat expert, i would say that at the moment someone can hit you with their limbs or a held object, a handgun, and even less a rifle, is a practical weapon. there is a reason why a bayonet is still part of the soldiers field kit

i recall watching a episode of some program (on discovery or national geographics) where a guy was supposed to draw a gun while a another rushed him with a knife. lets just say that by the time he had the gun up (no holster but held at the hip) he would have had some bad cuts on his body.

maybe if was in high-ready (or whatever they call it) he would have gotten of a shot or similar, but still. as for the distance? 10 meters or there about. angle of camera wasnt the best...

im guessing that the gunslinger ability of close combat shot is something similar to the gun kata you see in equilibrium.

 

[molonel]

3. Regarding the Double Tap feat. Does this mean that any time you make an attack, your first attack is a double tap, and all other attacks are resolved normally? Or can you Double Tap every time you fire?

For example, let's say a character would normally fire a semi-automatic pistol at +6/+1. Do they now get to fire three shots at +6/+4/+1, or does the -2 count for all attacks and they resolve at +4/+4/-1, or can you only fire twice as a standard action at +6/+4 or +4/+4?

Or can you fire four shots total at +4/+4 and -1/-1?

4. Is there any balance reason to keep Weapon Finesse in its 3.0 D&D form, or can it simply apply to all light weapons, the rapier and the chain as it does in D&D 3.5?

 

[hobgoblin]

you can double tap on every attack. it basicly allows you to fire two bullets in a single attack...

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Double-Tap is a single attack that raises damage for a penalty on the attack and always resolves as a single attack. (Think of it like Power Attack for guns.)

So if I have a +4 attack and choose to Double-Tap I make a single attack roll at +2 (+4 -2) and, if I hit, I roll, say, 2d6+1d6 (3d6) damage.

The penalty applies only to that attack ...

So if I have a +6/+1 and choose to DoubleTap on the first, but not the second, I fire at +4/+1 ... first attack deals 3d6 damage, second only 2d6.

4. Not that I'm aware of. Another of those changes that happened after d20M went to print.

--fje

 

[molonel]

Okay. I'm just mixing up Double Tap with the way Rapid Shot works in D&D.

You can Double Tap with each shot, and you don't roll any extra to-hit dice.

If you have +6/+1, you can fire +4/+1 with the first attack adding 1 die of damage if you hit, or you can fire +4/-1, with both attacks adding 1 die of damage if you hit.

Got it.

 

[molonel]

Thank you, by the way, for your input. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the game mechanics after playing D&D for a LONG time.

5. Is there a penalty for shooting in low-light conditions, or in the dark beyond the normal miss chance? I'm thinking about imposing a -4 to-hit unless a firearm has tritium sites, or the character has night vision goggles, or somesuch.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

1. Is there any reason NOT to use the D&D 3.5 revision for Combat Reflexes, which allows you to make as many AoO's against someone as you are allowed, and they inspire, but only one for movement per round per target? Or has this correction appeared in d20 Modern in any errata?

Try it and find out if you don't like the Modern version.

2. While d20 Modern is certainly built for multiclassing, and encourages it, and streamlines the process, I'm curious if it seems odd to anyone else that Close Combat Shot, which is the first special ability that a Gunslinger gains, isn't more common. The soldier doesn't get it. Many of the combat builds in Blood and Guts, which is an extraordinarily well-written supplement I am going to use, nevertheless don't include it. Should I include Close Combat Shot as a feat? Because it seems rather silly to encourage a one-level Advanced Class dip just to gain the ability that most combat-trained advanced classes should have, anyway.

CCS isn't that great of an ability. You can take a five foot step, and the simple tactic of stepping behind a five-foot thick bush or a fence means you don't even need to do that.

That's why it's only a first level ability. If PCs are only taking one level of Gunslinger, they are simply shafting their own BAB (kind of ironic).

4. Is there any balance reason to keep Weapon Finesse in its 3.0 D&D form, or can it simply apply to all light weapons, the rapier and the chain as it does in D&D 3.5?

I use the 3.5 version for my campaign. There's no balance reason that I can think of.

5. Is there a penalty for shooting in low-light conditions, or in the dark beyond the normal miss chance? I'm thinking about imposing a -4 to-hit unless a firearm has tritium sites, or the character has night vision goggles, or somesuch.

There's a miss chance, as darkness causes concealment. I believe it's a 20% miss chance. You can put on infrared goggles, but that inflicts Spot penalties.

 

[Johnny Angel]

I also wonder whether it's really necessary that Improved Trip have the +4 to opposed strength checks taken away in Modern. Is it that overpowering? My best guess is that in D&D you're eventually up against things much larger than humans a lot, so the +4 helps you deal with that, whereas in Modern you're assumed to be up against human-sized targets most of your career, so you don't need the boost.