d20 Modern: Too much FX?

[trancejeremy]

I think having magic/paranormal/supernatural stuff is fine, but I don't think should have stuck so closely to D&D (though I think the same could be said for d20 Modern in general). And the FX name makes it hard for me to take it seriously, since it implies you are playing a movie.

 

[Shieldhaven]

arscott - For every Pirates of the Caribbean, there's a novel by Alexandre Dumas. (He was, in fact, ridiculously prolific.) There's no magic in (pardon the geeky phrasing) his Musketeers campaign, unless I've completely gone sack of hammers. Yet the characters are pretty blatantly heroic, in the sense that they are a cut above almost everyone they encounter, with a few rare exceptions.

Now I'm amused to imagine Alexandre Dumas sitting around hucking dice alongside Daniel Defoe and Edgar Allan Poe (who was undoubtedly the goth - you know, they sneak into D&D groups here and there).

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I think alot of people LIKE FX, it's sort of an expected part of many genres that fit into the "Modern" broad archetype.

There are alot of genres that it's NOT a part of, but unlike cooking, it's actually easier to take something OUT of an RPG than it is to put it in. Putting in FX involves building and balancing classes, spells, monsters, etc etc. Not using FX involves, well, not using FX, for the most part.

I think non-FX should be supported, and luckily we've got folks like RPGObjects doing great non-FX material for Modern.

I'm trying to think, but in many ways I think FX is sort of a crutch. Not a bad one, but more of a "crutch to fun" or something of the sort. There's no FX in the real world (and nofx as well), and the "real world" is sort of boring for alot of people. Not that there's not alot of fun to be had, but I think maybe the average guy playing an investigative game feels more heroic when his character uncovers evidence of alien conspiracy as opposed to evidence of a complex scientific murder mystery involving researching inset pupae and sand castings ... which make for pretty good TV in the form of CSI, but maybe not so much at the game table.

--fje

 

[arscott]

I realize that. I think a musketeer campaign should have far fewer FX, if it has FX at all. It's just that Age of Adventure is a pirate campaign at least as much as it is a musketeer campaign. Were I to focus on the courtly intrigues of 17th century france, I'd eliminate magic, or at least reduce it's importance. But in general, catch-all settings have to go for the lowest common denominator in terms of rules included.

Besides, the FX classes in past filled niches that were sorely lacking. Age of Adventure gave us a Druid and Sorcerer Class to complement the Wizard and Cleric equivalents in the core book. Shadow Chasers managed to provide Divine and Psionic analogues to the Low-magic occultist. And I'd been yearning for a pulp scientist since the first book came out.

 

[jdrakeh]

I realize that. I think a musketeer campaign should have far fewer FX, if it has FX at all. It's just that Age of Adventure is a pirate campaign at least as much as it is a musketeer campaign.

That said, pirates are only truly synonymous with magic in gaming and in modern entertainment cinema (e.g., Pirates of the Caribbean).

Note that Treasure Island (Robert Louis Stevenson), Capatain's Courageous (Victor Fleming), Typee (Herman Melville), and Yankee Ship in Pirate Waters (Rupert Sargent Holland) had plenty of high adventure, with absolutely no FX. There were, of course, numerous legends about mermaids, voudoun priests, and so on... but in the world's most popular pirate fiction, these things only existed as legends.

And, of course, this doesn't touch on the real life exploits of John Paul Jones, Sir Francis Drake, William Kidd, or Henry Morgan - none of which were bolstered by sorcery or fantastic monsters.

There is plenty of precedent for a no FX swashbuckling adventure campaign set on the high seas. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that there is more precedent for such a campaign than there is for one that includes overt high fantasy elements.

 

[Ranger REG]

What's your take on Modern FX?

They're optional plugins, much like the material written for GURPS (e.g., Rome, Fantasy, Transhuman, etc.) or HERO (e.g., Fantasy HERO, Space HERO, etc.)

You don't have to buy them if you don't need them. But there are gamers besides you who have different campaign ideas and they want to use the d20 Modern rules system. Is it wrong? I don't think it is.

 

[arscott]

That said, pirates are only truly synonymous with magic in gaming and in modern entertainment cinema (e.g., Pirates of the Caribbean).

Note that Treasure Island (Robert Louis Stevenson), Capatain's Courageous (Victor Fleming), Typee (Herman Melville), and Yankee Ship in Pirate Waters (Rupert Sargent Holland) had plenty of high adventure, with absolutely no FX. There were, of course, numerous legends about mermaids, voudoun priests, and so on... but in the world's most popular pirate fiction, these things only existed as legends.

And, of course, this doesn't touch on the real life exploits of John Paul Jones, Sir Francis Drake, William Kidd, or Henry Morgan - none of which were bolstered by sorcery or fantastic monsters.

There is plenty of precedent for a no FX swashbuckling adventure campaign set on the high seas. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that there is more precedent for such a campaign than there is for one that includes overt high fantasy elements.

I think you're ignoring an important fact: No matter how much they may be great literature, Herman Melville stories are a complete torture to read. I shudder to think what sort of soul-sucking campaign might be based off of one.

I think that in general, campaigns based on summer blockbusters work better than campaigns based on romantic literature. And the exceptions tend to revolve around those peices of literature that are easily adapted into summer blockbusters, like Treasure Island.

Superstition played a huge role in the lives of pirates and explorers, both real and fictionalized. In Treasure Island, The pirates are terrified of what they assume is Ben Gunn's ghost, and manipulated by Long John Silver because they wrote his death sentence on a bible page. Ponce de León spent his life searching for the fountain of youth. Columbus's sailors were half-convinced that they were about to fall of the edge of the world.

I think part of having a good pirate campaign means keeping that superstition alive. And I don't think it's possible to enjoy dealing with a campaign element like that when they know the secret behind it OOC.

Mysteries are rarely fun when you knew the answer in advance. Card tricks are a little less magical when you know how they're performed. And pretending to be a sailor just isn't as fun when you know that the mermaids are really just manatees as seen by very drunk and lonely sailors.

 

[jdrakeh]

I think you're ignoring an important fact: No matter how much they may be great literature, Herman Melville stories are a complete torture to read.

That's not a fact

In Treasure Island, The pirates are terrified of what they assume is Ben Gunn's ghost, and manipulated by Long John Silver because they wrote his death sentence on a bible page. Ponce de León spent his life searching for the fountain of youth. Columbus's sailors were half-convinced that they were about to fall of the edge of the world.

Yes, but there's a difference between believing that something exists and that something actually existing. In classic piratical fiction and the real life exploits of pirates, superstition exists - the things that said superstition supposed, however, do or did not exist.

I think part of having a good pirate campaign means keeping that superstition alive.

I agree, actually - what I don't agree with is that the best way to keep superstition alive is to treat it as though it were real and actually give it form (mainly because, at that point in time, it ceases to be superstition and instead becomes reality).

And pretending to be a sailor just isn't as fun when you know that the mermaids are really just manatees as seen by very drunk and lonely sailors.

I think it's safe to say that you prefer fantasy pirates to the real deal, but remember - this doesn't mean that people don't like the genuine article, nor does it invalidate a campaign based on actual nautical exploits or classic piratical ficiton.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In the d20 Modern "2.0" thread, King of Old School mentioned the phrase "D&D Modern" that some use to describe WotC's Modern adventure game.

I also felt that it was "D&D Modern", and I was disappointed by that. Pages of D&D monsters, pages of D&D spells - it looked to me as if they were taking a short cut, thinking 'how do we appeal to our core D&D audience?' and 'how do we pad this out?'.

OK, I'm being overly harsh and I know it - but I do believe that they took the path of least resistance, to the detriment of d20 Modern. It is pretty good, but nowhere near as good as it could have been.

Cheers

 

[Committed Hero]

They're optional plugins, much like the material written for GURPS

But they do need to be wholly integrated into the system, which is why I think the core book has just the right amount of FX.