d20 Modern Wealth problem?

[Falanor]

"The DCs of items are eccentric at best. Chainsaw 9, 8-person tent 13, .22 pistol 14, machine pistol 15. Nope, sorry. Not even close, in any time or era; the .22 pistol is cheaper than any of them, and usually by a lot. I especially am amused at the thought of a machine pistol only being a little more expensive than a bottom of the line pistol." -- Cyberzombie.

It’s not really that eccentric. A .22 Cal Walther is $269.00 plus shipping and handling. That's roughly the equivalent to a DC 13 purchase according to page 204. I can get a 8 person Dome tent for around $179.00 on sale, regularly $269.00 which is about an 11 or 12 on said scale on sale, and around a 13 not on sale. A Remington 14" chainsaw costs only $44.00 true...but its a Remington...that thing jams on air! And chainsaws can go up to a Husqvarna 20" Gas Chainsaw for $349.00. For the Remington I'm paying a DC of 6...but it might not make it through the first zombie. For the Husqvarna I'm popping for a DC of 14 (Watch out Zombies! Here I come!!!). And finally a "Baby" Desert Eagle .45 ACP Semi by Magnum costs about $439.00 plus shipping and handling which is about a purchase DC of 15.

Of course I generally think this is why they put page 204 in the D20 Modern game book...

 

[Unseelie]

A Remington 14" chainsaw costs only $44.00 true...but its a Remington...that thing jams on air! And chainsaws can go up to a Husqvarna 20" Gas Chainsaw for $349.00. For the Remington I'm paying a DC of 6...but it might not make it through the first zombie. For the Husqvarna I'm popping for a DC of 14 (Watch out Zombies! Here I come!!!).

Clearly, that would be at least a +1 Masterwork chainsaw...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Hmmm... my PCs weren't selling stuff. They were using them.

If they stole those bikes they would alter them a bit (eg switch license plates, remove gang colors, etc) and then use them.

Basically I can't send shadow government troops after them with silenced pistols, because that means I just gave my PCs some free silenced pistols. With laser pointers!

I'm also reluctant to use very difficult encounters, since things like Raise Dead aren't exactly common.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm also reluctant to use very difficult encounters, since things like Raise Dead aren't exactly common.

Yes well that's why you need the Department 7 Rescue Squad in your game

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33117

 

[Merova]

Cyberpunk

When is the last time you saw Buffy, the Equalizer or James Bond in a pawn shop dickering for cash money over the wondergun they took off their latest bad guy?

Hi all!

You're absolutely right, which is why I admitted that dealing with theft was not an issue for the standard d20M base settings. My point addresses the issue of "technology creep" and its ramifications upon the Wealth system, specifically in the cyberpunk genre of Digital Burn.

I totally agree that as an abstract system of wealth, which emulates those genres where financial resources are not of major importance to the story, d20 Modern works like a charm. I don't feel that this is necessarily the case with the cyberpunk genre.

I think that the system could work, but the designers of Digital Burn did not tailor it to reflect the genre. For instance, the Wealth DC of various equipment, especially firearms and vehicles, should have lowered beneath 15, to represent the disposable nature of "dark future" technology.

As regards illegality issues, let's not forget that we're speaking of a cyberpunk game here.

In regards to the points brought up by Mr. Ryan: Yes, the system does have a nice control on determining value by relative wealth. However, as the example shows, getting to 15 by theft is no difficult feat. In a cyberpunk genre, this means that a PC can now Take 10 in acquiring choice cyberware. Is it worth it?

Ex: Johnny Chrome drops a suit who's slumming somewhere that he shouldn't be. The suit has(had) a nice set of wheels, Wealth=36. Johnny nabs it and rushes it to his most "reliable" fixer, selling it illegally as Wealth=30. Johnny has a Wealth of 10, not bad for a street rat. After the fixer rips him off, Johnny earns 2d6+1, for an average of 8. Now Johnny has a Wealth of 18, so before he leaves, Johnny tells his fixer to arrange that military grade smartlink that he's been wanting.

I think it's worth it. YMMV.

Thanks for reading.

---Merova

 

[jdavis]

I found the wealth system to be the most combersome and generally odd system in the whole game. It looks like it runs on a Logrithmic scale (sort of) and it is just goofy (laptop computer DC 23, Dodge Neon DC 26). There is quite a bit of difference in buying a laptop computer (mine cost $1300) and a car (My wife's new Neon $16,000) but the difference of DC 3 just doesn't show that logically. Most people don't think in logarithms, it is just awkward. I understand why they did it but the good old fashoned money system just works fine by me, this is just a needless complication. Instead of using a easy system I am used to (a linear scale, 1=$1, 2=$2) I have to refer to a table or whip out the old Calculus book (DC 2= $5 DC 26= $12000). It's just needlessly bulky, as far as how to split up wealth? Well if everybody raises their wealth by one, the person with a DC 2 going to DC 3 just scored a whopping $7 the person going from DC 12 to DC 13 got $75 the person going from DC 28 to DC 29 got $7,500. Seems like somebody got the shaft there. Instead of making money less important to the game it seems to have caused alot of confusion and wasted time in figuring out if you can get a shovel or not. Sometimes the easiest way is the best way.

 

[Petrosian]

Re: Cyberpunk

[/B][/QUOTE]

Hi all!

You're absolutely right, which is why I admitted that dealing with theft was not an issue for the standard d20M base settings. My point addresses the issue of "technology creep" and its ramifications upon the Wealth system, specifically in the cyberpunk genre of Digital Burn.

The cyber punk genre is basically supers with techno gadgets and a dark world. Every game i have seen has put into play controls on cyberware. The wealth system in D20 modern was not designed as a tool for this. If Db relies on it as such then that is one flawed peice of game design on DB's part..

I totally agree that as an abstract system of wealth, which emulates those genres where financial resources are not of major importance to the story, d20 Modern works like a charm. I don't feel that this is necessarily the case with the cyberpunk genre.

I would tend to agree IF wealth was the primary limiting element controlling cyberware. The wealth system in d20 modern was not, as far as i can tell, meant to carry a lot of the weight of balancing the system.

I think that the system could work, but the designers of Digital Burn did not tailor it to reflect the genre. For instance, the Wealth DC of various equipment, especially firearms and vehicles, should have lowered beneath 15, to represent the disposable nature of "dark future" technology.

All in all, this sounds off to make me glad i skipped DB as a christmas purchase. i like cyberpunk, but it does need more thought than you seem to be indicating they gave it.

As regards illegality issues, let's not forget that we'r speaking of a cyberpunk game here.

When i played cyberpunk, the law was a terribke thing. When they responded, it was with militaristic overkill. Your goal was always to not go too far and get them involved.


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All in all, since you have stepped into a world where EQUIPMENT is vital and powerful, you would do well to figure out a better gear access control than the wealth system. Since Db did not do it for you, you will need to do it yourself.

good luck.

perhaps when/if wotc publishes its own cyberpunk genrebook, they will put just a little more thought into its controls.