d20 or Bust?

[Desdichado]

Any idea what sorts of changes you'd made? I'm interested in trying my hand at subtly working in horror into a modern game I might run this summer.

I've run it with nothing so much as adding CoC style Sanity on top of d20 Modern, nixing the D&D style magic and psionics and replacing them with CoC style magic and psychic feats.

Other than that, the advice John Tynes wrote in the chapter "Gamemastering" in the d20 Call of Cthulhu book is the best advice for horror gaming I've ever read. It should be required reading for any GM.

 

[Emiricol]

Is it just me, or does it seem that many people who play 3.x D&D refuse to play any game that doesn't use the d20 rules? If so, why? Why refuse to try something different?

I think that is incorrect. People with time and desire to learn more than D&D do so. Many people don't have time to learn a dozen systems. I did when I was a kid, but now? Not a chance.

Just as importantly, everyone seems to use d20 generically. d20 has a specific meaning that is more restrictive than (I think) what you mean. Example would be Mutants & Masterminds, which is a very popular and extremely well done superheroes game that uses the core mechanics but isn't d20. It's also the best superhero game I've ever encountered, and I can't think of another system that could do it as well, as cleanly, or as efficiently as Mutants & Masterminds.

For my group, we just don't have time to learn other systems though. If we pick up a game based on the OGL and/or D20, we can be playing it more or less correctly within half an hour, including character generation.

I did recently pick up The Riddle of Steel and it is the first new system I've been that interested in since I got back into gaming when 3E came out. But I know I'll never get my players to dedicate time to learning the new system - they'd rather play D&D, M&M, T20, Dragonstar, D20M, Darwin's World II or other games with baseline rules they already know.

 

[sparxmith]

My hate of d02 know no limit!

As a convert to d20 from d02, let my just say: I love d20. If you think the levl sytem is bad in D&D, try d02.

It fails in just about every aspect of a game,and it is more of a rule playign game than role playing game.

Frist off it is way to liniar.You just get better in everyway.THere is no way in avoiding it.I mena no mater what you are, you have have hit points and levels.

It is over comlicated,and simplist at the same time. IT is harder to hit a mmman in plate armor.And hammers and swords tear chaim mail the same way. Then you have the detail of when you can atack,and what range weapons have,and how far you can move.

Classes, are jokes. really.From how hits points.skill points,and bonus powers are moved about. In the end in boils down to this.

levle systems do not work.They may work on paper, but a level 12 fighter or even mag doesn't need to fear having a sword swung at them, or even getting stabed. Also with the way hit points work, your either fighting as if nothing happened or are out cold.Nothing in the middle.

the flaw of rolling a d20 is also that the best fighter in the word, taking up his most magical sword, misses 5% of the time.ALso so all fighters are just as good with all weapons they use.We all know that training with hand to hand weapons will make you great with a bow.Also if your good with guns, you must know how to use a sword.


In the end, d20 is too many rules, and not enough rules at the same time.Has too many strick rules, while leaving many feild wide open with no reason. I am ranting here,and know this dosen't make much sense to many people.BUt in the end I would like to see one come with a good reason d20 is a good system.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately, I cannot take credit for the above nonsense. That's a quote from the link in my .sig.

Just thought I'd bring some sense to the argument.

Sparxmith

 

[The_Gneech]

Y'know, this thread reminds me of an oddity that happened in my gaming group recently. I got ahold of BESM d20 and came up with a campaign idea I liked a lot -- it was basically something along the lines of Hyper Police if you're familiar with the series. Bounty hunters in a futuristic "post-oops" world where magic has reappeared to mix with slightly-higher-than-current technology.

Trying to do all the groundwork (creating world-specific races, statting out NPCs, coming up with plot ideas) took me weeks ... then it stretched to a month ... then two ... with no gaming happening in the meantime...

It suddenly occurred to me that I was putting as much work into this would-be d20 game as I would have had to invest in a decent HERO campaign, and that as time went on and I started having to make high-level NPCs, this would just get worse instead of better ... and I got very discouraged.

So on the drop-dead "We are GAMING this weekend or ELSE!" date, still no scenario ready, I said, "Screw it!" I told everyone to make 4th-level versions of their characters from a retired campaign, pulled out an issue of Dungeon magazine, and suddenly I have a new campaign that I'm quite happy with.

I'm a little bummed that my BESM idea is just sitting there unused now ... but on the other hand, I'm very happy to actually be doing something. So I guess what it boils down to is, never underestimate the value of a good support system.

-The Gneech

 

[RFisher]

d20 or Bust?

Er...bust?

The d20-only (or anything only) mentality is shocking to me. Now, I have strong preferences about which systems I do or do not wish to referee. I can understand having only a single system you want to ref, and I've known a few people like that. A gamer whose not willing to play almost any system someone offers to ref, I've never met that person face-to-face. Heck, most gamers I know (myself included) have been more than happy to try even the games that they ridicule & swear never to play again the moment someone offers to ref it.

The thing is various d20 games vary as much as different systems. The average distance between two d20 games is much greater than the average distant between--e.g.--two GURPS games. (Sure, you can find extremes in GURPS & some near-identities in d20, but on average...) Even going from D&D to Wheel of Time or Star Wars is as much of a difference as some systems are from d20.

And I've never seen lack of support materials to be a problem. Any referee I've known has been able to do fine conversions-on-the-fly to systems they know. They don't need to know the source system either. Just ignore the stats & use the rest as is. Improvise your own stats.

Well, that's my 2¢.

 

[Henry]

I'll pose a question in another way. I believe that the two question have similar answers:

You've just pulled off the interstate at an exit in the middle of Nowhere, Indiana, after a trip to Gencon. You're hungry, you have 3 more hours of driving, and you're down to your last $5.00 cash (you've got credit, but nowhere out here has an ATM). You've got two choices for food:

Bert's Chicken Hut

A fast food restaurant

Which do you pick, and why?

 

[Calico_Jack73]

Is it just me, or does it seem that many people who play 3.x D&D refuse to play any game that doesn't use the d20 rules?

It isn't just you. I buy games because I like to read them for their background and oftentimes I end up liking their system. I originally got into White Wolf's Storyteller System that way. Werewolf looked cool so I bought it and after I read it I felt it was a brilliant system. However, I also know that most people I've played with like to settle down with one system and play it to the exclusion of all else which I why I primarily play d20 games these days. I bought a copy of Twilight:2000 on E-Bay today (I accidentally sold my first copy in a lot I traded in at a FLGS) not because I ever expect to actually convince my players to play it but because I wanted it. I actually figured I'd have an easy time of finding T2K players when I was in the military but nothing could be further from the truth... I didn't find a single one in 9 years. My RPG Bookshelf looks like a library because of my buying habit. I hope someday to find a group to play all those games with and that hope is why I bother hanging on those books and don't sell them.

 

[3catcircus]

It isn't just you. I buy games because I like to read them for their background and oftentimes I end up liking their system. I originally got into White Wolf's Storyteller System that way. Werewolf looked cool so I bought it and after I read it I felt it was a brilliant system. However, I also know that most people I've played with like to settle down with one system and play it to the exclusion of all else which I why I primarily play d20 games these days. I bought a copy of Twilight:2000 on E-Bay today (I accidentally sold my first copy in a lot I traded in at a FLGS) not because I ever expect to actually convince my players to play it but because I wanted it. I actually figured I'd have an easy time of finding T2K players when I was in the military but nothing could be further from the truth... I didn't find a single one in 9 years. My RPG Bookshelf looks like a library because of my buying habit. I hope someday to find a group to play all those games with and that hope is why I bother hanging on those books and don't sell them.

Gee - sounds like me. I've got the bottom two shelves of two Ikea Leksvik bookshelves stuffed to the gills with rpg books (the rest of my books are in plastic bins in a closet since my wife demanded to fill the rest of the shelves with homey, artsy-fartsy crap like pictures and knick-knacks...) If you lived closer (S. Jersey), I'd take you up on a game of T2K - I'm forcing my Spycraft group to play a one-off this Thurs. night (I need a break from Spycraft to come up with more campaign stuff...)

 

[Calico_Jack73]

My in-laws live in North Brunswick and my brother in-law lives in Collingswood. If I could break away from them during a visit I'd be happy to play T2K but my wife would probably kill me after it (if she allowed it at all).

 

[Wombat]

I'll pose a question in another way. I believe that the two question have similar answers:

You've just pulled off the interstate at an exit in the middle of Nowhere, Indiana, after a trip to Gencon. You're hungry, you have 3 more hours of driving, and you're down to your last $5.00 cash (you've got credit, but nowhere out here has an ATM). You've got two choices for food:

Bert's Chicken Hut

A fast food restaurant

Which do you pick, and why?

I guess it depends on what Bert's Chicken Hut looks and smells like, but my general feeling is to go with something that is not a chain -- I find most chains bland, boring, and overpriced for what you get...

...wait a minute....