d20 Past - Anyone using it?

[Angel Tarragon]

Post deleted by user.

 

[mythusmage]

When I hear of a book that purports to cover Earth's past the first thought I have is, the whole thing? Even if you limit it to human history you're dealing with over 5,000 years. What did I see with d20 Past? Thin gruel.

Steve Jackson Games produces a number of historical sourcebooks for GURPS. From Classical Greece to World War II, but nothing yet for the Ancient Near East. Well done, comprehensively researched, and well written. If you don't have the time to hit the library they are a good substitution.

In addition, if you know the GURPS and d20 systems well it shouldn't be that hard to convert GURPS stats to d20.

My point? Methinks Wizards would do far better to produce historical sourcebooks. Start with d20 Imperial Rome, then d20 Classical Greece. The Medieval Period, Renaissance, the Age of Exploration (pirates are popular, if you hadn't noticed ) ), and the Cold War could be sellers. Hell, done well most any period could gain an audience.

Which is the sticking point. SJG's GURPS historical sourcebooks have an audience because they are done well. By and large d20 products - Wizard and third party - suffer in comparison. Compare GURPS Fantasy (4e) (William Stoddard) with D&D itself sometime. Bill is simply the better writer. With an author of his caliber D&D would be a very different and much better work.

Compelling writing, engaging writing is what a publisher needs to make any book sell. Sidewinder Recoiled works in large part because it is a better written book than most other d20 efforts. The same applies to Green Ronin's Medieval Players Handbook and The Black Company.

Select a period, research it, make it come to life. Do it well and your book will do far better than most anyone expected.

Here's a challenge for you: Do a d20 historical sourcebook on early Sumeria. The period from about 5,000 to 4,000 BC when the Sumerians descended from the Zagros Mountains into Upper Mesopotamia and largely displaced the Ubaid Culture. Make the period and the people come to life and you will have a bigger success than you could ever expect.

d20 Past failed because it fulfilled the old saying; no guts, no glory. Go for the gold, and if you do fail, at least it won't be for lack of trying.

 

[Ranger REG]

Depends on the treatment, I guess. Everything would use d20M as a base, of course, so one should be able to mix n' match as they see fit. Ideally, at least basic compatibility between supplements would be a design goal.

That means one author must do both themebooks. There is no such rules for vehicle creation in d20 Modern (yes, I know of an external resource). If two freelanced authors are assigned for mecha and starships themebooks separately, then both must work jointly in order to ensure the unified creation rules simply mesh seamlessly. A plugin to a plugin.

 

[buzz]

By and large d20 products - Wizard and third party - suffer in comparison.

Debatable.

Here's a challenge for you: Do a d20 historical sourcebook on early Sumeria. The period from about 5,000 to 4,000 BC when the Sumerians descended from the Zagros Mountains into Upper Mesopotamia and largely displaced the Ubaid Culture. Make the period and the people come to life and you will have a bigger success than you could ever expect.

http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=516

It wasn't that big a success.

 

[buzz]

If two freelanced authors are assigned for mecha and starships themebooks separately, then both must work jointly in order to ensure the unified creation rules simply mesh seamlessly. A plugin to a plugin.

Ideally, yes.

Or, WotC could reap the benefits of its own licensing and just make use of GOO's Mecha d20 SRD.

 

[Kanegrundar]

I have to say I prefer broad strokes from WotC rather than making a slew of supplements based on specific time periods. After all, not everyone is going to be in the market for D20 Vikings, D20 Greece, D20 Summeria, etc. which could lead to a loss of money in WotC and a loss of faith in the RPG department with Hasbro. Let the 3rd party market put out the specific stuff (as has been the case with Modern so far) as long as WotC lays a good foundation.

That said, I'm not so certain that D20 Past laid the best foundation in D20 Past. I enjoy it, and I'm glad to have it, but it is a little thin. It could have used some more information from earlier times beyond that of the Age of Exploration, but I can easily modify existing classes to fit those ages by replacing feats and tweaking skill selection.

Overall, I'm happy with the Modern line. I'd always like to see more, but as long as WotC puts out books that give me plenty of ideas while reading them, I'll be happy.

Kane

 

[Ranger REG]

So what other d20 Modern/Future/Past themebooks would you like to see in the near future, not counting Apocalypse and Cyberscape?

 

[Kanegrundar]

So what other d20 Modern/Future/Past themebooks would you like to see in the near future, not counting Apocalypse and Cyberscape?

I don't honestly know. I wouldn't mind seeing an Aliens/Monsters book with something more than just D&D rehashes, but I wouldn't mind if it was filled with D20 updates to the aliens and creatures from Alternity and Star Frontiers that we haven't seen yet as long as it still had a good amount of fresh material. Maybe a follow-up to D20 Future with more Starships and vehicles. Beyond that I don't really know. With RPGObjects and LJPDesigns churning out great D20 Modern material there isn't a whole lot that I don't have covered for my games. Apocalypse sounds like it's going to have more mutations, and Cyberspace sounds like it will have even more cybernetics enhancements, so those areas are covered. I guess the next logical step would be to test the waters with a setting. Dark Matter would be my choice, if they were going to recycle a once popular setting instead of taking the most popular of the setting starters from the rulebooks.

While I like the broad strokes that WotC has put out, they are nearing the end of the line of what they can do there and will have to start putting out more focused material. I think there's still a few areas that could be covered before that then. However, I could see them pulling out of the Modern market altogether, leaving it for the 3rd party publishers. More than likely, WotC will update the rules and reset the line. Not sure how well that will be recieved since the Modern line isn't a line that can withstand that like the D&D line could with 3.5.

Kane

 

[Ranger REG]

I don't honestly know. I wouldn't mind seeing an Aliens/Monsters book with something more than just D&D rehashes, but I wouldn't mind if it was filled with D20 updates to the aliens and creatures from Alternity and Star Frontiers that we haven't seen yet as long as it still had a good amount of fresh material. Maybe a follow-up to D20 Future with more Starships and vehicles. Beyond that I don't really know. With RPGObjects and LJPDesigns churning out great D20 Modern material there isn't a whole lot that I don't have covered for my games. Apocalypse sounds like it's going to have more mutations, and Cyberspace sounds like it will have even more cybernetics enhancements, so those areas are covered. I guess the next logical step would be to test the waters with a setting. Dark Matter would be my choice, if they were going to recycle a once popular setting instead of taking the most popular of the setting starters from the rulebooks.

Well, for a guy with any set of plastics (does an ATM card count?) I'll have to wait a few more months before any of new RPGObjects books (like BNG2 and BNS Revised/2) become available in print.

The one thing I can count on WotC is that they're a print publisher first.

But from the look of things, I don't see a mob of third-party publishers knocking on WotC's front door to expedite the release of OGC material based on d20 Past. Either that or they have listened to my sinister request that they should release it three months after just to give more time to sell the print product.

While I like the broad strokes that WotC has put out, they are nearing the end of the line of what they can do there and will have to start putting out more focused material. I think there's still a few areas that could be covered before that then. However, I could see them pulling out of the Modern market altogether, leaving it for the 3rd party publishers. More than likely, WotC will update the rules and reset the line. Not sure how well that will be recieved since the Modern line isn't a line that can withstand that like the D&D line could with 3.5.

If you are referring to something more focused than Apocalypse or Cyberscape, then perhaps they should ramp up support for their only d20 Modern campaign setting, Urban Arcana (tie-in with the upcoming TV series of the same name), then release one for Future (my vote would be Star*Drive) and Past (my personal vote for Pulp Heroes but I think people would prefer Age of Adventure).

 

[Kanegrundar]

Well, for a guy with any set of plastics (does an ATM card count?) I'll have to wait a few more months before any of new RPGObjects books (like BNG2 and BNS Revised/2) become available in print.

I could see how that would be problematic. That's too bad. RPGObjects are an excellent development group.

The one thing I can count on WotC is that they're a print publisher first.

True. This isn't much of a problem for me.

But from the look of things, I don't see a mob of third-party publishers knocking on WotC's front door to expedite the release of OGC material based on d20 Past. Either that or they have listened to my sinister request that they should release it three months after just to give more time to sell the print product.

I don't much see a lot of D20 Past material coming out either. There will e a trickle, but not much beyond that. As for the SRD addition, I would expect to see it before long, IMO.

If you are referring to something more focused than Apocalypse or Cyberscape, then perhaps they should ramp up support for their only d20 Modern campaign setting, Urban Arcana (tie-in with the upcoming TV series of the same name), then release one for Future (my vote would be Star*Drive) and Past (my personal vote for Pulp Heroes but I think people would prefer Age of Adventure).

I could see that. Urban Arcana is better left as a one-shot IMO. I liked it, but I don't need much else for it. I would likely buy a supplement put out for it though. Dark Matter was pretty successful for WotC, so I could see it coming back if they wanted to actually do a setting for D20 Modern. Star*Drive and/or Star Frontiers would be good choices for a D20 Future setting. A setting for Past is a tough choice for me. Pulp Heroes is a good choice, but I honestly wouldn't mind Age of Adventure or a WW2 setting with a little bit of magic and super-science thrown into the mix.

Kane