D20 Point/Buy Methodology?

[Gadodel]

GURPS and HERO have been using the Point/Buy System for years. BESM D20 and Mutants & Masterminds have adopted the methodology. I really like it. I have decided to allow my players to make any D20 Character using the Point/Buy method. Since BESM D20 is OGC, whereas M&M is not; I'll refer you to their SRD to look over their method.

Has anyone else done this for their campaign?
How has it worked so far?
Pros/Cons of methodology you've found so far?

 

[Crothian]

I did this a few years ago for a modern game I ran before d20 modern came around. It was okay, but like all these systems its easier to abuse. One also has to redo the XP system as levels, while doible, are tougher in this type of system.

 

[Narfellus]

point system

Glad you asked Gadodel. We also got the idea from M&M a while back, and an ambitious player of mine actually wrote his own point system using the SRD as a template. And i mean he spent MONTHS working on this, and in the end i have to admit it works beautifully, much better than the default class system. It's too much to explain here in full detail (its a 90 page book with Poser art now), but basically 1 XP = 1 skill rank. From there, after each adventure the DM rewards 2-6 XP depending on what happened. Every 30 points you accumulate becomes a phantom level, which dictates your highest BAB and saves, just like in M&M. He went much further to actually break down the point value of every class from 3.5. He found out that Fighters are the weakest class and are dropped from his system (called The Crude System). A fighter was better in the class system because of their non-set feat progression, but with Crude everyone starts and advances equally. We're actually working on having it published as a downloadable product. Classes exist, but become Themes or Paths of development which act as guidelines and archetypes of the kind of character you want to have. The magic system is slotted or spell point, depending on what you want. The flexibility is great, and it meshes perfectly with any official 3.5 rulebooks, although the system is slightly more complex. My favorite part as DM is that tedious XP calculation is a thing of the past. No more. After EVERY SINGLE adventure the player has the option to use gained XP (which are simple single digits, not thousands) for skills or feats, or to save them up and plan ahead.
If you're interested, i can email you the official character sheet i made that will be bundled with the system. I can't get it below 244k to upload it on ENworld (it is color and graphic intensive)

 

[DrSpunj]

If you're interested, i can email you the official character sheet i made that will be bundled with the system. I can't get it below 244k to upload it on ENworld (it is color and graphic intensive)

I'd certainly be very interested in receiving a copy of that if you're willing to send me one (email in the profile). If it looks good I'd certainly be interested in purchasing it. I'm currently working on something similar, but not nearly that in-depth, though I've kicked around something as big as what you've described. Still, I don't have the time and your version has already seen some playtesting, so all the better!

@Gadodel: I didn't realize BESM d20 was OGL or used a point buy character creation system. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the heads up!

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Kemrain]

If you're interested, i can email you the official character sheet i made that will be bundled with the system. I can't get it below 244k to upload it on ENworld (it is color and graphic intensive)

I'd like a copy, too. And I'd also like an opportunity to purchase your system. Sounds very interesting, and I love to try out new ideas. Email below. Thanks!

- Kemrain at SQ7.org

 

[Narfellus]

crude

Feel free to ask me more questions if you want. The guy that wrote it knows the system the best, but he wanted to make the transition from the class system as easy as possible by making the game look similar to what we're all used to. The trick can be the glut of options and feats that you are presented with, which the default classes deal with by forcing you to take those feats when you level up.

 

[Gadodel]

Actually, I was trying to distance myself from Classes perse and D&Disms as a whole. I felt that a Point/Buy System would be the most flexible, generic and simplist way to allow a player to make the kind of character they want.


I do like the idea of handing out EXP, which in turn are used to buy things to improve the character. Hand out a few after each session and the player has to be thoughtful about how they use them.

Nice input!

 

[DrSpunj]

Actually, I was trying to distance myself from Classes perse and D&Disms as a whole. I felt that a Point/Buy System would be the most flexible, generic and simplist way to allow a player to make the kind of character they want.

Ah! Well, in that case, you and I are working towards something similar. If you're interested, check out this thread and let me know if you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet I wrote about.

Thanks.

DrSpunj

 

[Gadodel]

Would the spreadsheet be universal for the D20 System?

 

[DrSpunj]

Would the spreadsheet be universal for the D20 System?

Mostly, yes. At least, I think so.

HD, BAB, Defense Bonus, Fort/Refl/Will Saves and Skill Points/lvl are all according to d20. Weapon & Armor Proficiency groups per the UA variant. Magic is Half or Full per Monte's AU system. All class abilities I'm categorizing as General or Combat feats.

That's it. As I've got things valued and set now, PCs get 19 Character Building points (CBs) at 1st level and 14 CBs for each level thereafter.

Now, you may look at my values and think they're screwy, but it doesn't take a lot of time (thanks to the spreadsheet) to change the values to something more to your liking, then it's just a matter of comparing the various classes and seeing how you'd tweak them to fall in-line with each other.

My biggest issue right now (as I try to finish balancing the classes) is what makes a worthwhile feat. For instance, take the Bardic Lore ability (or the Akashic's Delve Memory, basically the same thing). A 1st level Bard gets to make Bardic knowledge checks with a +1 bonus per Bard level. How would you make this a generic feat? or series of feats?

Since there are no longer Bard levels, it becomes easiest for the bonus to either become a flat +1 per character level or a flat bonus each time you take the feat. The former seems way too good and the value of that feat would be far greater if you took it at level 20 than at level 1, so that doesn't appeal to me much.

Instead, I've gone with a feat that gives you the ability to make a Lore check and gives a simple +2 bonus on the roll. That's less than you get from the +3 Skill Focus(Knowledge) feat, but Lore doesn't give you specific information, only general information, and it's useful for just about any Knowledge check you'd ever want to make so its application is quite a bit broader, while Skill Focus only gives a bonus to that one type of Knowledge, of course.

YMMV, but I think that's a reasonable feat; one that appeals to me with the right character concept, but certainly not a "must have" for most any other concept. Of course, you can take the feat multiple times, but no more often than every other level (or, if you prefer, your total bonus can never be greater than your level; either way you won't get someone with more than +20 at 20th level, just like a 20th level Bard).

There's a lot of that kind of thinking/converting at this stage. Not tough, just a bit work. I'm mostly done with my conversion of the Core classes to this system (though the Monk is especially tough given all their abilities) and now working on the AU classes.

Thanks.

DrSpunj