d20 that should have been core

[Greg K]

Shamans (Green Ronin Press)
Witches (Green Ronin Press)
Environmental based druids from Quintessential Druid (Mongoose Press)
Damage Save from Mutants and Masterminds (Green Ronin Press)
Ritual and Relics

The following ideas that will be included in Unearthed Arcana:
1. A class system along the lines of d20 Modern or Call of Cthulu. I like that d20 Modern classes are much more generic and customizeable with classes giving bonus feats rather than specific abilities at a given level and that occupations gave additional class skills. Even before d20 Modern was released, I was wishing the designers of DND had taken a similar approach with the classes.
2. Class based AC
3. Armor absorbing damage
4. Wound/Vitality Points
5. PrC versions of the Paladin and Ranger in the DMG. Okay I know PrC are optional rules, but I wish the designers had included these as options since they had initially considered it.

 

[Arnwyn]

Mass combat should have definitely been core. We're at the 3rd edition of this ruleset, and it still wasn't put in? Sad.

Not sure whether Cry Havor or the forthcoming Fields of Blood would be better, though.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

A few things:

The oD&D Rules Cyclopedia included a full mass combat system and a system for managing and running domains, as well as constructing custom-built castles. Cry Havoc! gives us the combat system, and the Stronghold Builder's Guide gives us a construction system, but there is still no system for managing realms, economics, taxes, and other such issues. All three of these should have been part of the core rules, IMHO.

 

[Aeolius]

...there is still no system for managing realms, economics, taxes, and other such issues.

I still remember when my 1e AD&D cleric established his kingdom and began collecting taxes from his citizens. I then figured out how many millions of chickens that translated into.

 

[Arnwyn]

Hear hear, Tyler. Hear hear.

However, I'd be happy with just an accessory book covering managing realms, economics, etc. It wouldn't even have to be core for me to be happy! (And I do use some of the oD&D rules in a horrible jury-rigged system for 3e until a better kingdom-management system comes out...)

 

[Silveras]

Core or not Core, that is the question

First off, I agree that this kind of discussion is moot; there are no facts one can point to supporting one view over another - it is based on preferences, which are entirely subjective.

That being said, I am also one who is *glad* Psionics are not core. Psionics do not belong in my preferred "flavor" of Fantasy.

I will also second the Green Ronin Witch's and Shaman's Handbooks. Very good books all around, and very good treatments of two very archetypal elements of folklore. It is worth noting that Green Ronin's Witch's Handbook uses a "light" version of the Relics & Rituals system for ritual magic, so that is a backdoor vote for that as well.

Now, back to how subjective this kind of discussion can be: I would *NOT* want the Book of the Righteous to be core. Again, it is the wrong "flavor" for my Fantasy (I do not believe other alignments than LG would have Paladin-type classes, for example).

On the subject of domain-management, A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe is an excellent work in that regard. An old 1st Edition 30-mile-hex domain would be composed of many Manors in AMMS:WE, but could also be built up one by one by clearing land and encouraging settlement. AMMW:WE covers much of it nicely.

I do agree that a mass-combat system and domain management system should have been core, but I also understand why they are not. The mantra of 3rd Edition has been "Back to the Dungeon". IMNSHO, the design team has actually made it HARDER to design and build campaign worlds because of this focus. Spell designs, for example, are balanced for the dungeon party without much regard to the greater campaign world. Spells that would have a practical use in the greater campaign world are the ones which have received the most adjustments, because they coincidentally could be abused in the dungeon.

Thanks for your time.

 

[Estlor]

I have to agree with herbalism, ritual magic, mass combat, and domain management belonging in the core.

I think with the proliferation of prestige classes it's silly to see some things like Dragon Disciple and Red Wizard considered core when we don't have a gypsy prestige class.

Personally I would have liked to see something similar to Urban Arcana's incantation system designed to be accessible by lower level characters (not needing 30+ ranks in Spellcraft to qualify) such that a number of lesser spellcasters could recreate higher level spells at a slightly higher cost. But I can understand why they would leave something like that out of the core - too many competing magic systems makes things confusing.

 

[Desdichado]

Is this question really getting answers on what should be core, or on what supplemental material folks really like?

 

[der_kluge]

Joshua, I think for some it's the same thing.

That said, one thing that I can think of that needs to be in the core books are rule for called shots, which Torn Asunder has.

The second thing is rules for underwater combat, and rules for ships.

Rules for alchemy/herbalism would have been nice, but I don't think it's necessary. My game hasn't suffered because of a lack of those rules.

 

[Magic Missile]

What should have been core?

Bullywugs!