d20M: new Talent Trees?

**** Uh, bump. ****

Can anyone update me here? Any new products in the last year?

Of the existing talent tree products, which are more comprehensive? How much redundancy is there?

Did the Grim Tales fantasy-esque talent trees get replicated in PDF format anywhere? I have Grim Tales, but I'd like those in electronic format for a game I am cobbling together, and I notice that none of the Grim Tales PDF excerpts include a chargen excerpt.
 

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Psion said:
**** Uh, bump. ****

Can anyone update me here? Any new products in the last year?
Actually, BFG's POSTMODERN: Talent Tree Compendium, published this past September, is to my knowledge the biggest talent tree compilation ever, with 58 talent trees in one pdf for $3.95. We worked really hard to give you the most possible bang for your buck. You can get it here: http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7742&

A few of the trees have appeared as some form of Open Game Content before, but most of the ones we reprinted had balance issues or errors which we fixed.

It's funny, I never saw this thread the first time, but someone linked to my post of a preview tree from POSTMODERN: The Versatile Hero (an older product in which the trees were just an extra add-on), which only had 12 talent trees, some a bit derivative (the Rage Talent Tree was obviously based on the d20 barbarian, with a couple wrinkles, for example). While I think The Versatile Hero succeeds in presenting a great alternate base class, folks who bought it just for the Talent Trees would be much happier with the Compendium.

Coming this month, we'll have POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes, which reimagines all the D&D classes for the Modern paradigm, allowing you to use them as base or advanced classes. This features a number of new talent trees as well. I'll post a preview talent tree soon if I can.
 
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EditorBFG said:
Actually, BFG's POSTMODERN: Talent Tree Compendium, published this past September, is to my knowledge the biggest talent tree compilation ever, with 58 talent trees in one pdf for $3.95. We worked really hard to give you the most possible bang for your buck. You can get it here: http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=7742&

Talent Tree Compendium is a great resource. I'm looking forward to picking up some of your recent titles too like the Genre Plug-Ins and Bride of Bloody Hooks. You guys consistently put out good stuff! :)
 

Well, EditorBFG, you may have a sale on your hands.

Are you familiar with the Grim Tales talent trees for fantasy? How does your upcoming fantasy product compare to that? Because the GT approach is pretty much exactly what I am looking for.
 

Psion said:
Well, EditorBFG, you may have a sale on your hands.

Are you familiar with the Grim Tales talent trees for fantasy? How does your upcoming fantasy product compare to that? Because the GT approach is pretty much exactly what I am looking for.
I am pretty familiar, and I admire Grim Tales a lot. I would say our approach is very similar, but within a different framework. Obviously, as the product is a book of new classes, the talent trees included are designed more for those new classes than the existing six (though there is nothing to stop anyone from using the fantasy talent trees with Modern's regular base classes, and they are designed to work that way as well-- there are rules for using the 12 classes presented as additional new base classes, replacement base classes, or as advanced classes).

Also, Fantastic Classes is designed to work with Modern as written, and does not have its own magic system like Grim Tales does. Because Grim Tales features a self-balancing system for magic (spell burn, etc.), the designer did not have to go the route we did with magic-using talent trees. For us, it became important to have a game balance element implicit in the talents. So, if the Smart Hero begins casting arcane spells with the Arcane Insight talent tree, he goes from receiving 9 skill points per level to receiving 3 per level, making him the equivalent of a D&D mage-- he spends less time learning general knowledge and lets skills atrophy to devote more time to honing the craft of magic. It is more complex than that, but that is essentially how we did it.

A final concern was making classes that were still usable in any kind of game, even one without magic. So the wizard-like class can be a spellcaster, or can be a character obsessed with gaining forbidden knowledge on another subject, like conspiracy theory or computer hacking. The ranger-like class can gain supernatural abilities, or simply be a Modern character who devotes himself to nature. Our central conceit was that the D&D classes represented archetypal roles rather than merely game mechanics, and the product is designed to help apply those roles to any Modern game.

That was a long answer to a simple question, but basically, yes it is similar. Yet different. :)
 

Thanks.

Yeah, magic is no concern, since I'm angling for a Planetary Romance campaign (to include D20 Mars), in which there is lots of swords and blasters, but not so much sorcery.

Psionics will be there, but I like the current D&D iteration and third party supplements, so I'm going to try to bolt that in somehow.

What date does POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes go live?
 

Psion said:
Thanks.

Yeah, magic is no concern, since I'm angling for a Planetary Romance campaign (to include D20 Mars), in which there is lots of swords and blasters, but not so much sorcery.

Psionics will be there, but I like the current D&D iteration and third party supplements, so I'm going to try to bolt that in somehow.

What date does POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes go live?
I know it was pushed back to the middle of this month, but I don't have the exact date from BFG's head honcho right now. When I do, I'll post.

In the meantime, here is a talent tree from the book. As you can see, it is designed so that our monk-like class, the Disciplined Hero, and our barbarian-like class, the Savage Hero, share a talent tree in common-- flip-sides of the same law/chaos coin, you might say.

FORGED BY CONFLICT TALENT TREE
The hero has lived a life marred by suffering, deprivation, and struggle. Enmeshed for many years in personal or open conflict between order and chaos, his body has been toughened and his mind has learned to adapt to any circumstance.
A few of the talents in this tree require allegiance (law) or allegiance (chaos). If the hero loses a required allegiance, he cannot use the talents requiring it until the allegiance is regained. If he instead gains the diametrically opposed allegiance (a character who once had allegiance (law) gains allegiance (chaos), or vice-versa), he may replace a talent requiring his former allegiance with a talent requiring the new one the next time he gains a level.
For talents marked with an asterisk (*) there are Modern advanced or prestige classes that exist which may provide the character with a class ability similar, or identical, to that talent. A character who already possesses the talent may choose another talent from that talent tree instead, or any talent which is specified as a prerequisite for that talent.
Aligned Strike: The hero’s unarmed attacks are treated as magical weapons for purposes of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. If the character has allegiance (law), her unarmed attacks are treated as being +1 weapons for purposes of ignoring damage reduction against creatures with allegiance(chaos); if the character has allegiance (chaos), her unarmed attacks are treated as being +1 weapons for purposes of ignoring damage reduction against creatures with allegiance (law). Aligned strike can only be used when wearing light armor or no armor.
Prerequisites: Allegiance (law or chaos), Combat Martial Arts feat
Slow Fall: If the hero is within arm’s reach of a wall, she can use it to slow her descent. Subtract 10 feet from the fall per two character levels before determining damage, with falls of 0 or less doing no damage.
Prerequisites: Base Reflex save bonus +2
Flurry of Blows*: When fighting unarmed, the hero may strike with furious speed at the expense of accuracy. Wheni doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the hero might make before her next action. The hero must use a full attack action to strike with flurry of blows. The hero cannot wear any armor while using this ability.
Prerequisites: Either the Brawl or Combat Martial Arts feat, one other talent from this tree
Trained Speed: The hero adds 10 times 1/3 her character level in feet to her base speed when wearing light armor or no armor.
Prerequisites: Allegiance (law or chaos)
Exotic Arms: The hero chooses three basic or exotic weapons of medium size or smaller with which she is proficient. For purposes of any talents, class abilities or special attacks that require an attack to be unarmed (such as aligned strike, flurry of blows, jump kick, etc.), she may consider attacks with those weapons to be unarmed attacks.
Prerequisites: Combat Martial Arts feat or Defensive Martial Arts feat
Acrobatic Leap: The hero’s jumping distance is not limited according to her height. Also, she adds her Dexterity bonus to all vertical jumping attempts.
Prerequisites: Any one talent from this tree
Evasion*: If the hero is exposed to any effect that normally allows a character to attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage, the character suffers no damage if he or she makes a successful saving throw. Evasion can only be used when wearing light armor or no armor.
Improved Evasion*: If the hero is exposed to any effect that normally allows her to attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (such as getting caught in a grenade blast), the character suffers no damage if she makes a successful saving throw and only half damage on a failed save. Improved evasion can only be used when wearing light armor or no armor.
Prerequisites: Evasion, plus any two other talents from this talent tree and/or the Defensive Talent Tree.
Forged by Temperance: The hero is immune to all diseases (except supernatural and magical diseases) and can heal her own wounds via meditation and trained body control. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current character level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses. This is an extraordinary ability.
Prerequisites: At least one other talent from this tree and one other talent from the Combat Focus talent tree, allegiance (law)
Forged by Strife: The hero has been toughened by a life of conflict. The hero’s robust talent is augmented; she gains a number of hit points equal to her character level as soon as she selects this talent, and thereafter, the character gains +2 hit points with each character level he or she gains instead of the +1 she once gained from robust.
Prerequisites: Base speed of 40 feet or more, evasion, any talent from the Rage or Energy Resistance talent tree, robust (from the Unbreakable talent tree), allegiance (chaos).
 

Psion said:
What date does POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes go live?
Thanks to a faulty email filter, I only just now received my answer, but it appears POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes will be available at the EN World RPG Now affiliate store Tuesday (that's tomorrow). And if one were desperate to get it now, it is already up at yourgamesnow.com.
Psion said:
Psionics will be there, but I like the current D&D iteration and third party supplements, so I'm going to try to bolt that in somehow.
Actually, if you get Fantastic Classes, 3.5 psionics are already bolted in, to an extent. It not only allows you to play the equivalent of a Psion or Psychic Warrior, but also the Wilder and Soulknife as well, via special psionic talent trees. You should be able to use 3rd party psionic products with these classes with little or no conversion.

Oh, and if crazy swordplay and furious fisticuffs are going to be a factor in your Planetary Romance game, did you get POSTMODERN: Iconic Combat Feats yet? It is a book of over 100 cinematic combat feats, to my knowledge the largest product of its kind devoted to modern system combat rather than d20 fantasy.

Sorry about the delay on giving you the on-sale date, but at least the wait for the actual product wasn't long!
 

EditorBFG said:
Thanks to a faulty email filter, I only just now received my answer, but it appears POSTMODERN: Fantastic Classes will be available at the EN World RPG Now affiliate store Tuesday (that's tomorrow). And if one were desperate to get it now, it is already up at yourgamesnow.com.

No need to get desperate to go to yourgamesnow. They rock! :D

Actually, if you get Fantastic Classes, 3.5 psionics are already bolted in, to an extent. It not only allows you to play the equivalent of a Psion or Psychic Warrior, but also the Wilder and Soulknife as well, via special psionic talent trees. You should be able to use 3rd party psionic products with these classes with little or no conversion.

Excellent! :cool:

Oh, and if crazy swordplay and furious fisticuffs are going to be a factor in your Planetary Romance game, did you get POSTMODERN: Iconic Combat Feats yet? It is a book of over 100 cinematic combat feats, to my knowledge the largest product of its kind devoted to modern system combat rather than d20 fantasy.

No... I'll have to take a look. Thanks.
 

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