d20STL alternative

[Planesdragon]

If you're upset about the methods Wizards is using to enforce their standards of quality, we here at the Free Gaming Association would like to suggest that you consider replacing their compatability-logo with a third-party compatability-logo.

Thankfully, there isn't a need to create a whole new logo. There already exists, and has for some time, a pair of logos that can replace "d20" as an identifying mark. They have already been passed over by WotC legal for objections (and modified thereof), and have a not-insignificant market value. (Though still infitesimal compared to the d20 logo itself.) The real value, of course, is that these logos are the property of a not-for-profit organization dedicated to promoting Open Gaming, and not any particular for-profit corporation.

Our first and fully complete logo is the "OpenDie" logo--an indicator of nothing more or less than a particular ammount of Open Gaming Content. You can view the OpenDie logo and license at our website.

We also have the more-appropriate "Prometheus" logo, and indicator of compatability with a core ruleset. The logo can be seen at http://pgs.freegamingassociation.org/.

The logo is in the upper left corner. Twenty pips on the wheel.
Prometheus was the guy who stole fire from the Gods (hint hint). He became the patron of inpiration and creativity. We were told that WotC would object if we used a 20-sided die in any way on the logo. We could have pushed it, but we didn't feel the need. (Please ignore the rest of that page as it relates more to the cleaned up SRD we were working on than the logo license itself.)

 

[The Sigil]

If you're upset about the methods Wizards is using to enforce their standards of quality, we here at the Free Gaming Association would like to suggest that you consider replacing their compatability-logo with a third-party compatability-logo.

Thankfully, there isn't a need to create a whole new logo. There already exists, and has for some time, a pair of logos that can replace "d20" as an identifying mark. They have already been passed over by WotC legal for objections (and modified thereof), and have a not-insignificant market value. (Though still infitesimal compared to the d20 logo itself.) The real value, of course, is that these logos are the property of a not-for-profit organization dedicated to promoting Open Gaming, and not any particular for-profit corporation.

Our first and fully complete logo is the "OpenDie" logo--an indicator of nothing more or less than a particular ammount of Open Gaming Content. You can view the OpenDie logo and license at our website.

We also have the more-appropriate "Prometheus" logo, and indicator of compatability with a core ruleset. The logo can be seen at http://pgs.freegamingassociation.org/.

The logo is in the upper left corner. Twenty pips on the wheel.
Prometheus was the guy who stole fire from the Gods (hint hint). He became the patron of inpiration and creativity. We were told that WotC would object if we used a 20-sided die in any way on the logo. We could have pushed it, but we didn't feel the need. (Please ignore the rest of that page as it relates more to the cleaned up SRD we were working on than the logo license itself.)

I was actually looking at these as recently as last week. Would you be so kind as to provide a link to the license for using the prometheus logo (if one exists)? I didn't find one on the site.

--The Sigil

 

[Morrus]

Well, there's nothing wrong with the OGL, and that can't be retracted like the D20 STL. I think it's far to early to consider use of another logo to replace the D20 System Trademark, but if it came to it I would suggest using a logo that itself is released under the OGL.

 

[KingOfChaos]

Yes, and several of the larger companies would need to change over to make the alternative logo worth the effort for everyone to change over. Do you think they would do it?

 

[Robbert Raets]

Heh, I completely forgot about those.

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Kerrick]

"System Reference Document"
Shall mean the document found here:
http://www.wizards.com/D20/article.asp?x=srd[/quote]

That's the 3.0 SRD... what about the 3.5 SRD?

 

[spacecrime.com]

Unfortunately, there's something that's been bothering me about the idea of alternative logos. Maybe you have a better answer for this than I do.

Let's say I'm a publisher. I've got a line of books, I don't want to use the regular D20 logo, and I'm interested in using yours.

If I use your logo, however, and if I tie the identity of my brand to that logo... how can you guarantee to me that your logo won't get picked up by the likes of (for instance) the makers of FATAL or Racial Holy War? How do I keep their identity from contaminating my identity?

This is a minor concern with the regular D20 logo, since the overall pool of users is large and the logo is backed by a family-oriented company. It's a much bigger concern with a smaller logo network like this one, especially since the new content issues on the D20 logo are going to make an alternative that much more attractive to publishers who want to put out material that's on or over the edge.

I don't know how to resolve this issue.

 

[kingpaul]

That's the 3.0 SRD... what about the 3.5 SRD?

Actually, that URL will take you to the 3.5 SRD.

 

[trancejeremy]

Unfortunately, there's something that's been bothering me about the idea of alternative logos. Maybe you have a better answer for this than I do.

Let's say I'm a publisher. I've got a line of books, I don't want to use the regular D20 logo, and I'm interested in using yours.

If I use your logo, however, and if I tie the identity of my brand to that logo... how can you guarantee to me that your logo won't get picked up by the likes of (for instance) the makers of FATAL or Racial Holy War? How do I keep their identity from contaminating my identity?

This is a minor concern with the regular D20 logo, since the overall pool of users is large and the logo is backed by a family-oriented company. It's a much bigger concern with a smaller logo network like this one, especially since the new content issues on the D20 logo are going to make an alternative that much more attractive to publishers who want to put out material that's on or over the edge.

I don't know how to resolve this issue.

Isn't that really like asking "Will Martians Invade"? It's never going to happen.

There have never, ever, been serious plans for a Racial Holy War d20 game, or even Fatal d20, other than some rumormongering at RPG Net, mostly started by the anti-d20 people there.

So it's a moot point.

Even if it weren't, and Martians invaded, could they survive our atmosphere? Or in this case, would distributors and game stores even carry those products? No.

 

[spacecrime.com]

I agree, it's an extreme example. Just to quell your disbelief a little, let's throw out something a little more possible.

I start using the Alternate D20 logo. Several months after I put out my books using the Alternate D20 logo, The Valar Project decides to put out The Book of Erotic Fantasy II: Elves Gone Wild, also using the Alternate D20 logo. Just for laughs, Mongoose also puts out a new edition of The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers under the logo, and Fast Forward does the same thing with the Devil's Player's Guide or whatever that I've seen the cover of recently.

So, what am I going to do if my game Fluffy Bunny: the RPG of Peaceful Love and Happiness is using similar trade dress to 3 games with something to offend everyone? How do I be sure that my game doesn't get lumped together with a bunch of games aimed at a totally different market in a way that hurts the future of my game? What safeguards do I have to prevent my brand being affected by other brands using the same logo if those brands are more controversial than my own?

It's not the specific examples that are important here. I'm just seeing a real downside to an alternate logo for anyone who is doing work that is less edgy than the edgiest work using the logo. Maybe that downside doesn't really exist, and I'm certainly open to someone proving that to me.

But saying "oh, that will never happen" isn't a good enough answer when real money is at stake. I've been bitten in the butt by that kind of statement before, so my follow-up question is always going to be, "Oh really? What safeguards are in place to prevent that from happening?"