Daggers are AWESOME!

[Rechan]

Nifft, I found a flaw in your build! For the Warblade:

8/ Fighter 1 -- Dex +1, Weapon Specialization (Dagger)

Weapon Spec requires 4 levels in fighter. Unless there's something in the Warblade that I'm missing.

Also, would it effect your initial two builds much if you made it human rather than halfling?

Ultimately that would mean -3 to hit (size, racial, dex), but +1 to damage, and +1 feat. Which could add many ranged options earlier, or just ones you didn't touch. It also would let you put improved feint in your build (letting you do sneak attack damage per round rather than every other round if you feinted). Though maybe if you go Human, Brutal throw might be better (replaces Weapon Finesse, lets you focus on Str only).

PS: I think there's something to seriously be said for using the Dervish or Tempest for your melee dagger wielder. Also, the Master Thrower shouldn't be overlooked, although to get it at 5th level, you'd have to go Rogue 1/Ftr4.

Also, damnit Nifft. Now you're making me want to throw a high level NPC party of halfling dagger wielders, each with different PrCs.

 

[Rechan]

Your iterative primary attacks are +8/+3.

Your off-hand attack for fighting with two weapons is made at your full BAB - +8.

Your off-hand attack from ITWF is made at your full BAB - +8 - with a -5 penalty.

All attacks in the round take a -2 penalty - two-weapon fighting, with the TWF feat, and a light off-hand weapon.

+8/+3 with -2 penalties is +6/+1.

+8 with a -2 penalty is +6.

+8 with a -5 penalty and a -2 penalty is +1.

+6/+1 primary, +6/+1 off-hand.

Thanks. I, uh, wow. This is why I stick to casters.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Weapon Spec requires 4 levels in fighter. Unless there's something in the Warblade that I'm missing.

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your warblade level -2. For example, as a 6th-level warblade, you could take Weapon Specialization, since you're treated as being a 4th-level fighter for this purpose. These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have. Thus, a fighter 2/warblade 4 would also qualify for Weapon Specialization.

-Hyp.

 

[Rechan]

Weapon Aptitude (Ex): Your training with a wide range of weaponry and tactics gives you great skill with particular weapons. You qualify for feats that usually require a minimum number of fighter levels (such as Weapon Specialization) as if you had a fighter level equal to your warblade level -2. For example, as a 6th-level warblade, you could take Weapon Specialization, since you're treated as being a 4th-level fighter for this purpose. These effective fighter levels stack with any actual fighter levels you have. Thus, a fighter 2/warblade 4 would also qualify for Weapon Specialization.

-Hyp.

Thanks, Hyp.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Clearly optimized for Sneak Attacking, but he doesn't rely on a flanker -- at 10th level, he can Feint 4 times as part of his full attack, and his BAB is +9.

Errata says one feint per round.

1/ Warblade 1 -- Weapon Finesse, TWF -- Blood in the Water (TC/Stance), Sudden Leap (TC/Boost), Moment of Perfect Mind (DM/Counter), Sapphire Nightmare Blade (DC/Strike)

Doesn't qualify for the maneuvers -- Tiger Claw is stupid like that. The discipline's only entry points are through the 1st level Wolf Fang Strike and the 2nd level Claw at the Moon; everything else requires at least one existing TC maneuver known.

You might also want to take a look at Races of the Wild's Whisperknife PrC. Complete Warrior's Master Thrower ain't bad, either.

 

[Nifft]

Errata says one feint per round.

Ah, so flanking and blinking are still necessary. Oh well. He can at least Feint during a Charge. :\

Doesn't qualify for the maneuvers -- Tiger Claw is stupid like that.

Actually, he does. Check out his first Stance.

Cheers, -- N

 

[frankthedm]

So with a ring of blinking, if you throw a dagger, do you have to make a miss chance roll, or do we assume the dagger stops blinking when it leaves your hand?

Oh, it stops blinking when it leaves your hand. Problem is that the miss chance roll is whether you were ethereal when you threw it. A nice 20% chance you fling the damned thing into the ethereal plane never to be seen again.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

Actually, he does. Check out his first Stance.

Saw it. Triple-checked my book. It requires one Tiger Claw maneuver known.

 

[Nifft]

Saw it. Triple-checked my book. It requires one Tiger Claw maneuver known.

Ah, my reference was faulty! I thought Blood in the Water had no pre-reqs. Okay, so add in Wolf Fang Strike at 1st level, and swap it out later... eh, or not. We're doing a TWF build anyway.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Kat']

In the following, SAF refers to the sneak attack fighter from Unearthed Arcana (loses bonus feats, gains Sneak Attack as rogue)

How 'bout this:

Strongheart Halfling, level 4:
SAF 3 / Rogue 1, assume 21 Dex (18 base +2 racial +1 level up) and Dex>Con>Str>Wis>Int>Cha

Feats breakdown
Start: TWF
Bonus: Weapon Finesse
Lvl 3: Telling Blow

BAB +3, +3d6 SA, Full Attack +7/+7 without equipment, plus nice AC and Reflex saves and the option of dealing his Sneak Attack damage on a confirmed critical.

Strongheart Halfling, level 10:

Fighter 4/Invisible blade 5/Whisperknife 1. Again, Dex>Con>Str>Wis>Int>Cha, meaning 22 Dex.

Start: Weapon focus (dagger)
Bonus: TWF
Ftr 1: Weapon Finesse
Ftr 2: Point Blank shot
Lvl 3: Far Shot
Ftr 4: Quick Draw
Lvl 6: ITWF
Lvl 9: Telling Blow (gotta love this one)

Full BAB, 3d6 Sneak Attack, ITWF for +16/+11/+16/+11 attack (equiment not calculated), feint as free action, Telling blow option (grab a pair of Keen Daggers), Rapid Shot with daggers +17/+17/+12 (and yet another +1 within 30'), Uncanny Dodge.
At level 11, one more level of Whisperknife grants yet another +1d6 SA.

Strongheart Halfling, level 17:

Swashbuckler 5/Invisible Blade 5/Rogue 3/Master Thrower 2/Whisperknife 2

Dex>Int>Con or Wis>Str>Cha

Start: Point Blank Shot
Bonus: Weapon focus (dagger)
Swb 1: Weapon finesse
Lvl 3: Far Shot
Lvl 6: Telling Blow
Lvl 9: Improved Critical (dagger)
Lvl 12: Precise Shot
MT 1: Quick Draw
Lvl 15: TWF
Wis 1: Rapid Shot (with daggers only)

BAB +16
Base saves Fort +5 Ref +14 Will +2 (better work on this one...) or, if using fractional saves, Fort +8 Ref +9 Will +5
SA 6d6
Uncanny Dodge
Improved Evasion
INT to damage
+2 Shield bonus to AC when fighting with 2 knives
Feint as Free Action
Trap Sense +1
Master Thrower Trick: Palm Toss

Important attributes: Dex 30 (18/base+2/racial+4/level+6/enhancement), Int 24 (18/base+6/enh). Let's assume 10 Str.

Important equipment:
Ten +1 Returning Daggers (for throwing)
Two daggers for melee
Gloves of dex +6
Headband of int +6

So you're basically a thrower. Within 20' (penalty-free dagger reach with Far Shot), wielding your +1 returning daggers, your To Hit is as follows:
18/BAB + 10/Dex + 1/Focus + 1/Size + 1/Racial + 1/Enh + 1/PBS = +33
Full attack using your Palm Throw trick means also:
+33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18
Trick question: why 10 Returning daggers? Well, because the party's wizard might Haste you, of course.

Damage:
1d4 + 7/Int + 1/PBS + 1/Enh = 1d4+9. Not brilliant, but hey, not bad. And you may still Sneak Attack or use Telling Blow (stacks with Sneak Attack, BTW... gotta love the 17-20 crit range). Imagine that you ambush your foes (should fly with +14 initiative...), you would deal a maximum of 8d4+48d6+72 damage in the first round, average 260 damage.

In melee, you're not ridiculous either, using TWF and Feinting.

Finally, Armor Class:
10/base + 10/Dex + 5/Int + 1/Dodge = 26 without equipment. Note that this is also your touch AC and that you have Uncanny Dodge. Of course, you could grab Bracers of Armor, various Rings, an Animated Shield, as well as a Monk's Belt and a Periapt of Wisdom (would do good to your Will save anyway), for easy 35+ AC. No comparison to a good tank, but enough to survive.

Strongheart Halfling, level 17, other build

Quite easy: Fighter 4/Duskblade 13, go Melee Weapon Mastery, TWF, Weapon Finesse, take Practised Spellcaster somewhere, make TWF attacks using Arcane Channeling. Works with any light weapon, including daggers, but while you're at it, take kukris for the crit range.