Dailies vs. Encounters vs. At-Wills

[keterys]

How long are your fights running?

My 1st-2nd level fights are typically running for 10-15 rounds, and it looks as if monster hit points ramp up much more quickly than the damage from various powers (a 19th level wizard unleashing one of his daily attack spells might expect to knock off only about 5% of a Glabrezu's hit points, for instance!).

At the moment it is looking likely that the majority of most battles is going to be spent using at-wills, so I'd love to hear how your higher level game experiences are panning out.

Cheers

Both my low level and high (12th now) level campaigns are in the 6-7 round range I believe. My online game they don't really work together so that one is probably closer to 8-9 round average in the four fights they've done. I suspect they'll go faster once they get used to the system and working together.

The math I did the other day suggested that there's not a drastic increase in time taken at higher levels, but I'd not be surprised to add a round or two average for epic tier... but you also get more ability to refresh encounter and daily powers at epic tier.

No rangers in any of the groups, either, and that would probably speed things up more

 

[Mengu]

At the moment it is looking likely that the majority of most battles is going to be spent using at-wills, so I'd love to hear how your higher level game experiences are panning out.

You weren't asking me but, at 8th level, I see encounter/dailies getting used little less than half the time, and a variety of at wills the other half the time. Just going from memory a level 11 encounter saw them use the following standard actions (more or less):

Dragonborn Fighter: 3 charges, 3 encounter powers, 5 Reaping Strikes, 1 Cleave (6/12 at-wills)
Half-elf Paladin: 4 encounter powers, 1 item power, 2 Bolstering Strikes, 5 Enfeebling Strikes (7/12 at-wills)
Elf Ranger: 2 encounter powers, 10 or so Twin Strikes (10/12 at-wills, yawn)
Dwarf Cleric: 3 encounter powers, 1 daily power, 4 Sacred Flames, 2 Lance of Faiths, 1 First aid (6/12 at-wills)
Tiefling Wizard: 3 encounter powers, 1 item power, 4 Scorching Bursts, 4 Ray of Frosts (8/12 at-wills)

Level 8 or Level 9 encounters go a lot faster though, ending in around 7 rounds or so.

 

[keterys]

Why so few encounter powers used in the 11th test (5 unused)? And I wonder why only one daily for a 12 round encounter (which seems ginormous for a non-"boss fight"), they have 3 each at that point and presumably they were taking damage so the dailies would help mitigate some of that damage.

 

[Mengu]

Why so few encounter powers used in the 11th test (5 unused)? And I wonder why only one daily for a 12 round encounter (which seems ginormous for a non-"boss fight"), they have 3 each at that point and presumably they were taking damage so the dailies would help mitigate some of that damage.

I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, characters are 8th level, so only 3 encounter attack powers, encounter was 11th level (I should have just said level+3). The reason for so few dailies is because they kept thinking they had it handled.

 

[keterys]

Oh. My bad, read too quickly I guessed.

The 4th encounter power at 11th is quite helpful in that respect... but yeah, maybe my guys are just more willing to commit resources to a fight.

In general, they tend to sleep because they've run out of healing surges not out of dailies - or even cause they've finished that section of the adventure. I actually give out extra treasure if they finish combats within a reasonable amount of time (mostly designed to keep people from sidetracking excessively - all part of the 3e to 4e convert that has turned combats from 90 minutes to 30 minutes, but I'd not be surprised if it lures in the occasional extra daily to blow through things faster)

Are people using all "hard" encounters instead of a mix? Cause the +3 type encounters can certainly take longer, especially if you do that with higher level monsters instead of more monsters (lots more missing, and if you ever use a level 11 solo on lower levels that's a huge jump in hp from the x4 to x5 conversion)

 

[Mengu]

Are people using all "hard" encounters instead of a mix? Cause the +3 type encounters can certainly take longer, especially if you do that with higher level monsters instead of more monsters (lots more missing, and if you ever use a level 11 solo on lower levels that's a huge jump in hp from the x4 to x5 conversion)

I like level+2 and level+3 encounters best. Level or level+1 is typically over before you know it with little challenge, unless I try to add difficulty via terrain and such.

And I do use fewer higher level monsters rather than more lower level ones. Throwing a bunch of level 6 skirmishers and brutes with maybe one level 8 elite, at a level 8 party is a bit too easy for my taste. They mow through them fast with little expenditure of resources. There is a place for such encounters when you are trying to build up confidence I guess, but I don't expect to use such an encounter more than once a day. I think those kinds of encounters might be more appropriate for a party of 4 or 3. For a party of 5 or 6, a more serious threat is needed for a good challenge, and I like to have 3 or so good challenges in a day. At the end of an adventure, there will usually be a tough fight, and my players know to conserve their energies for that fight, though I do throw curveballs now and then to keep them on their toes.

 

[keterys]

Based on what you wrote, Mengu, it sounds like you're going against suggested balance in such a way that emphasizes using at-will abilities far more. It's a valid choice to make and interesting data for the OP's question, but it sounds like you're saying a standard encounter would be a lot fewer rounds and focus far more around encounter powers (over before at-wills were needed and without much expenditure, ie, dailies)

 

[Rashak Mani]

I look at the class power... then at-will and then encounter.