D&D (2024) Damage Threshold, the new "need a magic weapon"?

[Lanefan]

There is no evidence of it becoming a wide spread use for monsters, if used at all for monsters.

At first that appeared to be the case for DR in 3e too; but before long it seemed like everything had DR of some sort.

 

[Guest 7037866]

At first that appeared to be the case for DR in 3e too; but before long it seemed like everything had DR of some sort.

Well, look at how much stuff has damage resistance of one type or another (or even immunity) in 5E... it's everywhere!

 

[tetrasodium]

If it feels arbitrary when you add it, it would feel arbitrary if it was there to begin with IMO. Unless what you do makes no thematic sense to the monster involved.

There are no monsters that I know of that had DT in 2014 - 2023 products. There could have been one I missed I guess. I don't think there is any plan to change that for 2024. IMO, that is a good thing. DT and DR don't add anything useful to play IME.

For me, the 2024 MM is doing better just based on the previews already. However, adding DR or DT would not be an improvement IMO. However, that varies from DM to DM and group to group.

Yup, now you are seeing the trouble. DT i's only in the DMG for doors & other objects. They went all in on a useless to everyone by design resist50% nonmagical bludgeoning piercing slashing mechanic with such overuse that it ultimately gets in the way of any functional replacement. They could have had a sidebar for "convert x&y to resist nonmagical bludgeoning piercing & slashing to make it go away if you don't like it or want something more simple " sidebar but the bones to hang something more complex are missing

 

[dave2008]

Yup, now you are seeing the trouble. DT i's only in the DMG for doors & other objects. They went all in on a useless to everyone by design resist50% nonmagical bludgeoning piercing slashing mechanic with such overuse that it ultimately gets in the way of any functional replacement. They could have had a sidebar for "convert x&y to resist nonmagical bludgeoning piercing & slashing to make it go away if you don't like it or want something more simple " sidebar but the bones to hang something more complex are missing

I think you seem to be missing the part where I have said, IME, damage resistance (like in 3e and 4e), DT, and resistance (like in 5e) don't really add anything fun IME. I personally prefer they are not in the 2024 MM.

 

[mellored]

Just to toss out another idea.

25 THP per round will make you immune to a few pesants and low level aadventures But not an army.

Sort of like a damage threshold / DR.

 

[Ancalagon]

On the flip side, a dagger shouldn't be able to hurt something like a dragon, no matter who you are. 6 inches or a foot of steel won't even penetrate some of the scales, let alone scales + skin, and then enough past scales and skin to be able to hit something vital.

It makes sense that if I'm going to fight a being that is much larger than I, say an ogre or giant, I would want a big weapon that hits hard. A spadroon isn't going to to cut it - literally.

 

[Ancalagon]

You are responding to something I was not saying.

I think this is a good mechanic.

I just don't want it to be slapped on every mid and high level monster, as many good 3E mechanics were, whether or not it made any sense.

Damage threshhold is a good special mechanic. It should not be a default above a certain level.

See, I think there is a value to having... thresholds of power. Tiers, if you will. And this mechanism could be great at enforcing those tiers.

But you are 100% right that there is a danger of it being overused. I would like it more as a "porous" threshold, where only a portion of the monsters of a higher tiers have it. If it's all of them, it's... a bit silly.

All this being said, I am very curious about how damage resistances to weapon damage will be handled. We see a tendency of having 5.0 powers "your unarmed attacks are now considered magical" become "your unarmed attacks can inflict force damage". Will a "plain" +1 sword give you a mean to overcome these resistances? How is a "non magical" martial supposed to do so if + weapons won't do it?

 

[Horwath]

On the flip side, a dagger shouldn't be able to hurt something like a dragon, no matter who you are. 6 inches or a foot of steel won't even penetrate some of the scales, let alone scales + skin, and then enough past scales and skin to be able to hit something vital.

I do not know exact dimensions of a old dragon, but a 30cm of steel jabbed in an eyeball will deal damage(will not bother with called shots or body parts for damage effect) and can probably pierce the weak bone behind the eye. Depending on eye size that is.

that is why damage is mechanically irrelevant until you get to 0 HP.
hundreds of archers shoot at the dragon, but there is one "hero" among them that hits directly into the eye and pierces the brain. That is the shot that dropped the dragon to 0 HP.

 

[Maxperson]

I do not know exact dimensions of a old dragon, but a 30cm of steel jabbed in an eyeball will deal damage(will not bother with called shots or body parts for damage effect) and can probably pierce the weak bone behind the eye. Depending on eye size that is.

that is why damage is mechanically irrelevant until you get to 0 HP.
hundreds of archers shoot at the dragon, but there is one "hero" among them that hits directly into the eye and pierces the brain. That is the shot that dropped the dragon to 0 HP.

Why would they eye ever be within range? You are no threat to it, so there is no fight. The reason why a dagger might pierce the eye is that a combat is happening and the dragon or whatever has to move around, and the head comes within range. Your dagger isn't even long enough to clean it's to nails, let alone threaten it enough that it has to move around in a "combat" and have its head come within range.

You need to first be a threat, and a dagger doesn't cut it. Literally.

 

[Horwath]

Why would they eye ever be within range? You are no threat to it, so there is no fight. The reason why a dagger might pierce the eye is that a combat is happening and the dragon or whatever has to move around, and the head comes within range. Your dagger isn't even long enough to clean it's to nails, let alone threaten it enough that it has to move around in a "combat" and have its head come within range.

You need to first be a threat, and a dagger doesn't cut it. Literally.

well, it can be thrown 60ft, not very precise, but that is why you have hundreds of peasants.

also there are crossbows...