Damaging in a grapple + constrict

[MarkB]

Not having the legendary info infront of me. If the constrict entry says it does poison when it constricts then your player is correct, else the snake does not get the poison unless it uses the attack the poison is a part of.

It's the other way round, as I understand it - anytime it uses its bite in a grapple, it deals its Constrict damage as well.

 

[Nifft]

Not having the legendary info infront of me. If the constrict entry says it does poison when it constricts then your player is correct, else the snake does not get the poison unless it uses the attack the poison is a part of.

This is my understanding as well.

Usually when a critter has the Constrict special ability, it lists specific Constrict damage (which does not include poison).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zelc]

Improved Grab

If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.

Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

Yea, I'm guessing the interpretation of this passage means you can't do constrict damage and bite damage on the same attack.

 

[blargney the second]

The bit you're all missing is in constrict: "If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab."
-blarg

 

[MarkB]

The bit you're all missing is in constrict: "If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab."
-blarg

This seems slightly ambiguous, in that it might be interpreted as applying only when actually using that weapon to grab, not for successive attacks once the character is grabbed.

On the other hand, Improved Grapple's text is ambiguous too. If each successful Grapple check deals both constriction damage and the damage of the weapon used to make the attack, does that include additional doses of poison? And does any successful Grapple check do this, or only checks made to deal damage?

 

[Zanticor]

Sounds like your player is trying to do 6 attacks per round. Those being 3 bites for poison and 3 squeezes for grapple damage.

The problem is you cannot do both. You can either do the squeeze damage or bite attack with each attack chance. Since the creature only gets 3 attacks per round then you could only do some combination but to the maximum of 3 attacks.

Simple way around this problem is throw an Iron Golem at them. An iron golem is not only immune to the poison, it is also stronger than the snake. It should prove nicely effective against it.

Or if you really want to be nasty throw a few vampires. Immune to poison, and the vampire can do two levels of Energy Drain vs the Snake in a grapple.

Yes the six times of doing damage plus the accounting that three times constitution damage entails, can be a bit much. Getting through one druid round who has two animals and is casting buff spells or shooting insane amounts of arrows takes a while. My players are ok with this as long as we don’t need to go into a rules debate every time a grapple comes up. Although I must admit the druid is severely outshining the fighter in damage output. But that is something everybody already knew.

Zanticor

 

[Folly]

After looking at the monster entry last night, it specifically states that the legendary snake gets bite damage in addition to the base damage of the constrict.