Dancey v. Mearls?

[DumbPaladin]

But, good point on 4E. I am DMing 4E right now and I like that it's a lot easier to prepare and DM than 3.5E (which I also liked). However, I'm still not sure about all the changes to the game from prior editions, as I've been a player since the late 70s and had gotten used to things the way they were.

I haven't run across many people on here who were fans of both 3.5 and 4E, but also able to point out problems with both.

I would love to read a thread populated solely by people who played and enjoyed both editions who could bandy about the pros and cons of both. THAT would be some excellent reading.

 

[AngryMojo]

I haven't run across many people on here who were fans of both 3.5 and 4E, but also able to point out problems with both.

I would love to read a thread populated solely by people who played and enjoyed both editions who could bandy about the pros and cons of both. THAT would be some excellent reading.

I would like to see that as well, but the odds of people like us being the only posters in said thread would be minimal. For some reason, those threads always attract edition warriors, and they spiral out of control very quickly.

 

[Hussar]

Dragonlance - 1984
Oriental Adventures - 1985
Forgotten Realms - 1987

Spelljammer - 1989
Ravenloft - 1990
Dark Sun - 1991

Al-Qadim - 1992
Planescape - 1994
Birthright - 1995
Jakandor - 1998

Dungeons & Dragons
Dungeons & Dragons campaign settings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I was pretty close. Not bad going straight from memory. 2e is the only time we got a bunch of new settings. So, again why is WOTC taking the poop here? I mean, come on, the bajillion settings thing is one of the big reasons people point to for TSR going belly up. Yeah, it's not as simple as that, but, it certainly didn't help.

Coming out with new, original settings is actually not something D&D has done a lot of throughout a lot of its history. 1e is near the end of its run before you see original settings, 3e gave us one original setting. And 2e sunk the ship by giving us too much of a good thing.

Granted, I wish that the OGC was a bit less restrictive and let the 3pp get into the act with some new settings. Green Ronin and S&S Press did bang out some great stuff.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Umm, let's look at history for a second.

How many new settings did we get in the first two years of 1e? Greyhawk wasn't new, it was in OD&D. Dragonlance was a few years away. Oriental Adventures maybe?

GREYHAWK for original D&D isn't a "setting". It (SUPPLEMENT I: GREYHAWK) is a book of additional rules.

SUPPLEMENT II: BLACKMOOR is both (a setting and additional rules).

The WORLD OF GREYHAWK (folio) published in 1980 was very different from Gary's home GREYHAWK campaign (IIRC he used a map of North America, maybe Allan Grohe can chime in with other key differences...?)

So if we surmise that AD&D began when the last of the three major rulebooks was published (the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE in '78), that's two years before a published setting was released. DRAGONLANCE was released in 1982. The 1983 boxed release of THE WORLD OF GREYHAWK was a major update of the '80 folio edition.

ORIENTAL ADVENTURES wasn't released until '85, with FORGOTTEN REALMS clocking in during 1987, two years before AD&D's demise.

GREYHAWK ADVENTURES, by Jim Ward, was released in '88 (and states on the cover that it is "Compatible with 2nd edition"), but much like SUPPLEMENT I: GREYHAWK is largely more a collection of rules and monsters, although some world information and adventures (duh!) are included.

 

[UHF]

I think all this talk about who's doing better etc all wishy washy. No sales numbers... you don't know. In my town 4e is still very very strong. d20 is dead dead dead. PF didn't put a dent in it.

When WOTC puts out a product with an old feel to it, I think its just that. I don't think its some new direction. (At least on that point, time will tell.)

I would like to point out something 'yall are missing. There is a core group in this hobby around which most of this industry storms around. But dude. There's no sales here. There's no market. many older players, are playing older games 'cause they like it. Players come and go, and always have. But if 1,000,000 people are still playing their 3.5 I'll eat my shorts. Most guys have gone on in life since then.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Dancey proclaimed the death of D&D in 2009, and I think he was denouncing it a failure even before that.

Hey look, it's still around.

Excuse me if I decide against believing his prophetic words of doom this time around.

 

[Nikosandros]

Spam stuff.

Reported.

 

[Banshee16]

Not to mention how many RPG books never got sold. The game store that use to be closest to me (a closer one opened less than a year ago), I don't go to anymore. They never carry anything new. I was there a few months ago and they still have 3.0 d20 (not D&D, but now defunct 3rd party companies) book on their shelves AT FULL PRICE!!! The only thing I can see it used for anymore is a 3rd party company mining it for ideas. But they won't budge. And I am sure they are not the only store like that.

Yes......I can relate...Champions of Ruin is one of the books I never bought for FR during the original run. I've read some reviews recently, and decided I wanted to pick it up.....they have it at my local store.......after the release of 4E, but before I decided I wanted the book, it had been on the shelves for 50% off....so about $20. However, now that I've decided that I want it, I've noticed that they've taken the 50% off sticker off, and it's now back up to $40. As much as I wouldn't mind adding it to my collection, I'm not paying that at this point.

I've seen several stores like that....they've got the 3E stuff just sitting there.....in the same spot it's been in for the last 4 years. And we're talking big amounts of shelf space at the front of the store, so all the 4E stuff is crammed at the very back. Doesn't make sense to me. You'd think they'd want to clear out the old books, even at lower prices, and get the current 4E materials front and center.

Banshee

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I agree, unless your business model includes supplying OoP stuff to the market (and I know of successful stores that so just that), stock just sitting on shelves is just costing you money.

...which may be worth it to you if you're an edition warrior, but I can't see harming your business just to make a point like that; for a product that is merely a commodity, not loaded with weighty ethical baggage.

 

[Mercurius]

Banshee16, please don't pay $40 for [URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0786936924/ref=si_aps_sup_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1288588124&sr=8-1&condition=new"]this book.
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