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D&D 5E (2024) Dancing bards and true strike.
- Thread starter Valetudo
- Start date
This is true, it does not work. Dancing Bard is generally a weak subclass, probably the weakest Bard in the PHB, maybe the weakest in the game. It would be a lot better if you could make an unarmed strike with a bonus action without using an inspiration.
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In my games any spell or feature that can be applied to a melee weapon works with unarmed strikes. I see no reason why they shouldn't.
I'm not sure this makes dance bards better. Right now Agile Strikes doesn't cost any action. It's a free attack as part of the action, bonus action, or reaction in which the bard spent a bard inspiration use. That opens up the potential for the bard to use that bonus action for something else if a person finds a good way to do it. Probably within the spell selection.
If my bard PC casts Animate Objects then I want him using his bonus action on Animate Objects, not a bonus attack with Agile Strikes. If I cast Compulsion it's because I want to use my bonus action to trigger AoO's, not a bonus attack with Agile Strikes. If I cast Heat Metal it's because I want to use my bonus action for that damage. I want to give out a Bardic Inspiration die AND make an attack. I don't want that to be an EITHER/OR decision.
Agile Strikes is an ability that doesn't conflict with bonus actions. I think it's better to keep it that way.
What's nice about the dance bard is Inspiring Movement. That grants Agile Strikes on a reaction in addition to the movement.
Bardic Damage also gives an attack option when a weapon isn't available, but I would probably allow for using Truestrike wih the Bardic Damage unarmed attack anyway.
How can anybody think Dance Bard is weak lmao???
1. Tandem Footwork gives the entire party 1d12 to their initiative (or whatever your Bardic Dice are at your level) at the cost of 1 bardic die.
2. Inspiring Movement allows you to expend a bardic die as a reaction (which gives you one hit of 1d12 + Dex damage for free) and move half your movement speed AND allow an allow to move half theirs without taking opportunity attacks
3. Leading Evasion improves Evasion so that not only do you take no damage instead of half from dex saves, but also ANY allies near you also take no damage
Let's break this down. Take 1 level of Monk for Dextrous Strikes (probably after you've gotten your Extra Attack) and a bonus action Unarmed Strike that doesn't use Bardic Dice ( but is still calculated as 1d12 for every Unarmed Strike because of Bardic Damage).
Take Grappler Feat so you can get a Dex boost and a free Grapple with every Unarmed Strike and now you're using Dex instead of Strength for your Grapple (thanks to dextrous strikes), which is insane. You're getting to do 4d12 of Unarmed Bludgeoning damage plus modifiers and you're mostly attacking with advantage thanks to your grapple
(You could even take Fey-Touched for the Free Misty Step and Hex and a bonus to Charisma. Hex Strength and every enemy is taking 1d6 for all 4 of your hits per turn and ALSO they're rolling with disadvantage against your grapple)
Not only that but once you Grapple a foe you can use Bardic die to punch them as a reaction, drag them half your movement towards an ally and then grant that ally half their movement to get next to you so they can swing at your grappled foe with Advantage.
Your grappled foe can either only target you or use its entire action to try and break free.
IF you ever run out of Bardic Dice, which seems unlikely since you've got the 3 short rests, you can convert spell slots to Bardic Die so you can do all these^^^ shenanigans endlessly.
Origin Feat of Magic Initiate Wizard for Shield and get Mirror Image and you're hard to hit, too.
I think this is weak compared to what other Bards get.
You don't get extra attack with a Bard and you already have dexterity on your unarmed strikes.
I am not seeing how you are getting 4d12 unless you are taking a bunch of Monk levels, and in that case you don't have a ton of ki. You would need to be a level 5 Monk/Level 15 Bard to do this.
Ok you I think you have 4 feats total in this build, so now you have used two of them on two different abilities. Also Hex does not work very well with Monk because it gobbles up your bonus actions.
Meh. A Single classed MOnk can do this a lot better I think due to bonus action dash and their much higher movement.
"Weak" is both relative and subjective. It just depends on the comparison being made and what the person doing the comparison values. For example, I think a d6 free attack restricted by the number of uses of Bardic Inspiration at 3rd level on a build that splits CHA and DEX is typically only 3 such attacks in a game day.
AC is a bit better but also easy on a Valor bard, and Dance Virtuoso is a ribbon given that any bard using a musical instrument with the performance should get that synergy.
That's tier 1 in a nutshell.
In tier 2 the Dance bard has d8's and Font of Inspiration, and depending on feats taken four uses of Bardic Inspiration going into 5 uses later. Assuming 2 short rests gives us approximately 12 uses in a day, which is better, but if we're spending 1/2 to 2/3rds of that on Tandem Footwork for the initiative bonus every encounter we don't get that free attack because the BI isn't expended on an action, bonus action, or reaction. That still leaves hardly any uses and less available for standard BI dice to hand out for those free attacks.
Valor bards get Extra Attack and the ability to swap cantrips into their attacks. Glamour bards get a stance ability that lets them cast Command as a bonus action without costing a spell slot every round. Lore bards get Magical Discoveries, which is very useful at those levels.
That's tier 2 in a nutshell.
Bards only get 3 subclass ability levels instead of 4 and that 3rd one doesn't hit until farther into tier 3. In tier 3 it's a d10 and then most of the way through it becomes d12.
At 14th level Dance bards get (shared) Evasion. Situational damage prevention. It's not a bad ability but Valor bards can cast a spell and then take an attack, which is fairly often in comparison to the uses of Agile Strikes getting back to using the Tandem Footwork in conflict with gaining those free attacks. Glamour bards also gain a damage mitigation ability that's less situational, and Peerless Skill can be applied to any ability check or attack roll that fails.
15th level is the d12's but the subclass is still locked in a conflict between using the initiative bonus and the free attack. It's not until 18th level in tier 4 where Superior Inspiration guarantees 2 uses of Bardic Inspiration that the free attacks become reliable enough to be used. Tandem Footwork and Superior Inspiration both use "when you roll initiative" so we might need clarification on which takes priority but there's at least 1 BI die available every encounter at that point.
How powerful is an attack that gets to be used that limited number of times a day? The alternative is to pretend Tandem Footwork doesn't really exist and not use it. ;-)
Spending spell slots to recharge BI uses is possible but has it's own drawbacks.
We don't need to take monk for Dexterous Attacks. Bardic Damage already uses Dex already in the Dance subclass, and Inspiring Movement is about avoiding enemies instead of engaging. As a bard I am more likely to use a spell for status effects.
The bonus unarmed strike works though because then the Dance bard can actually use it more but this conflicts with other uses of that bonus action in the spells.
I would just do this style with a monk, TBH.
The concentration check comes up a bit often that close to an enemy. Fey-Touched is a feat I do take on bards but this works on a monk too with more attacks regardless of the bard levels.
Sure, but dragging enemies would still fall under weight restrictions and leave the bard close to the opponent, and still struggles with how many uses are available because they're getting used up by the initiative bonus.
The subclass can add more uses, and has to, by spending spells slots after 5th level but spells are usually more effective than BI uses.
Action denial is also possible from a distance with spells. That's part of the crux of the issue.
Bards are primarily a spellcaster and trying play them like a melee can be nuanced. Valor bards are basically a bard thrown in some better armor adding some attacks into the spellcasting.
The useful part of a Dance bard is less about some free attacks and more about how evasive they are. Better AC, easily move away from enemies who close, avoid AoE damage. Those are useful on a spellcaster played as a spellcaster.
Right, but the bard gives up the casting of a spell to do that. Why wouldn't I just cast Sleep instead? ;-)
That depends on what feats I want. Your already spending a feat for Hex and one for grappling and splashing a level for better use of Bardic Damage so it's starting to add up on feats with a delay for higher level spells.
Mirror Image is free on a Glamour bard and easy enough to grab with Magical Discoveries or Magical Secrets if I really want it. Same with Shield, and these spells help in the defense for any bard subclass.
IME, it's easier and more effective to play a bard like a spellcaster with some melee options than to play them like a martial with some magical options. This is very true with Agile Strikes, which is limited in uses enough that by focusing on it we're giving away a lot on the magical part.
That either takes a flavor build or some cautious system mastery. ;-)
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