Dark Creature Hide in Plain Sight

[iamtheend]

Someone in my party has built the Dark Creature into his character from Tome of Magic page 161.

My questions are how this works because it's not written out like the assassin and other classes. It reads like this...

"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar ettect)."

Can he be 10 feet from shadow and hide? What penalties or bonuses can he apply to hide? If he attacks does he lose his concealment? This hide check still used as a move action?

I'm asking to see if he is entitled to sneak attacks and to see if he is playing his character wrong.

Lastly I am wondering what the differences are with this Dark Creature build and the Shadow Blend ability?

 

[Jimlock]

Hope this helps...

 

[Jimlock]

You will find all the information you need in the pdf I uploaded...except:

The HIPS you are referring to still needs cover or concealment to hide.

While the Shadowdancer's?/Assassin's HIPS works both when one is observed and when one does not have cover or concealment (he only has to be 10' from some sort of shadow), THIS HIPS requires STILL cover or concealment.

 

[iamtheend]

That is only about Shadow Dancers and their Supernatural Ability. I'm inquiring about the (Ex) ability especially since its so vague. Like I figure the Dark Creature needs to have some sort of concealment in the first place to hide.

The rules of Shadowdancer I don't think are too relevant for the ability I'm asking about. Rangers can do this but rangers have better text written out explaining. Scouts say to read what the Ranger says. Dark Creature doesn't reference the Ranger and has its own text.

Concealment is just making me go crazy with getting confused on rules.

 

[iamtheend]

That is only about Shadow Dancers and their Supernatural Ability. I'm inquiring about the (Ex) ability especially since its so vague. Like I figure the Dark Creature needs to have some sort of concealment in the first place to hide.

The rules of Shadowdancer I don't think are too relevant for the ability I'm asking about. Rangers can do this but rangers have better text written out explaining. Scouts say to read what the Ranger says. Dark Creature doesn't reference the Ranger and has its own text.

Concealment is just making me go crazy with getting confused on rules.

EDIT= I was writing when you posted again and didn't see. What about any penalty to their hide check while hiding in front of someone even with concealment? It says if moving fast you get -10 but are you moving hastily to accomplish this? -20 if you attack.

Shadow Blend is different from this because you don't need to make a hide check and you're always in Concealment? If you're always in concealment do you need to use like a Move or Standard Action to at least activate or deactivate Shadowblend or this some free action?

 

[Jimlock]

That is only about Shadow Dancers and their Supernatural Ability. I'm inquiring about the (Ex) ability especially since its so vague. Like I figure the Dark Creature needs to have some sort of concealment in the first place to hide.

Well... as I said above, the only thing that changes is that THIS one STILL requires cover or concealment to work...
Ok... and its an Ex and Not an Su which means it works in AMF....(My fault i did not mention it earlier)

Those are the ONLY Differences.

The rules of Shadowdancer I don't think are too relevant for the ability I'm asking about.

Yes they are. They can both use the hide skill when observed (that means in combat too), and they both suffer the same penalties for doing so when attacking etc. The pdf i uploaded covers battle/penalties quite well.

Just skip the stuff regarding the "10' from some sort of shadow stuff" and the Su stuff...

Rangers can do this but rangers have better text written out explaining. Scouts say to read what the Ranger says. Dark Creature doesn't reference the Ranger and has its own text.

Only difference with the ranger is that he needs to be in natural terrain to use his HIPS, while the Dark creature can do it anywhere except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar ettect...

Concealment is just making me go crazy with getting confused on rules.

Concealment is not that hard...

The most common effects that provide concealment are: shadow illumination and fog/smoke.

What is it you do not understand about concealment exactly?

Perhaps you can specify...?

 

[Jimlock]

What about any penalty to their hide check while hiding in front of someone even with concealment?

There is none. You simply do it without a penalty.

With normal use of hide you cannot do it AT ALL.

It says if moving fast you get -10 but are you moving hastily to accomplish this?

when moving at half speed no penalty.

when moving faster that half speed and not faster than normal speed: -5

when running, charging attacking: -20 (for this one read the PDF, this is the most complicated part)

 

[iamtheend]

In my recent campaign a seasoned veteran who has DMed in the past created his character as a Dark Creature. With no concealment at all he just made a hide check in front of people which no penalties or bluffing.

I asked if he was a Shadow dancer and he said no so I was really taken back by what I must of missed with all the books I've read through. He also negated creatures with dark vision from seeing him.

I didn't want to start an argument and the DM was accepting it but then again it was his first time doing a game. So it seems now that he was wrong about not needing concealment and I believe he would also be wrong to assume darkvision can't see him since this isn't (Su).

Are there any penalties for him hiding in front of someone looking at him like the -10 for moving fast?

EDIT= Again you typed another post as I responded. Sorry.

 

[iamtheend]

"If people are observing you, even casually, you can’t hide. You can
run around a corner or behind cover so that you’re out of sight and
then hide, but the others then know at least where you went. If your
observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check; see
below), though, you can attempt to hide. While the others turn their
attention from you, you can attempt a Hide check if you can get to a
hiding place of some kind. (As a general guideline, the hiding place
has to be within 1 foot per rank you have in Hide.) This check,
however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast."

Like I read that and I wonder when someone isn't looking and you have concealment you take a -10. But with an ability that allows you to do it right in front of them you wouldn't have to.

Any insight on how Shadow Blend would work?

 

[Jimlock]

In my recent campaign a seasoned veteran who has DMed in the past created his character as a Dark Creature. With no concealment at all he just made a hide check in front of people which no penalties or bluffing.

With no concealment= wrong. He should've had concealment
no penalties= correct. (provided that he had concealment)
bluffing = correct. (provided that he had concealment) Bluffing is only used with the simple use of the Hide skill. Even then it does not help you "disappear", observes know where you went. (See Hide skill in PHB)

I asked if he was a Shadow dancer and he said no so I was really taken back by what I must of missed with all the books I've read through. He also negated creatures with dark vision from seeing him.

Correct. If his concealment was provided by mundane shadow illumination (mundane shadows), darkvision should have seen him.

Are there any penalties for him hiding in front of someone looking at him like the -10 for moving fast?

No penalties at all, no bluff checks, nothing.

Thats what the ability does.